How/when did the tide turn on schools?

[LaceCurtains]

In the beginning the mood here was almost desperate calling for schools to be closed.

In the last week or so there's been a marked shift to getting them open (from peope here).

Is it the same people who wanted the closed, now calling for them to get back to normal or have the original campaigners gone quiet/new people got louder?

FWIW I always thought schools closed as early as they did because of public pressure and it seems to me that "other" things are getting back to normal more quickly than originally planned/expected (because of DC and the need to distract?) but schools don't seem to be included in that.

I'm at a loss as to why schools are being treated so differently. I'm SLT in school, if that makes a difference and the government guidance is a shambles. Changes daily but doesn't seem to have any clear aim.

It's not petty to report personal attacks. Unfortunately you cannot forbid negative comments about teachers as a whole, or any other profession.

It's funny because I haven't heard negative language around any other profession as "bashing" it's fair game.

I think secondary schools should go back as normal in September but with teachers and students wearing masks and gloves/lots of hand sanitizer/hand washing. Bubbles and social distancing won’t work in a secondary school.

It may come out that children barely spread it and we will have punished them all for no reason!

It may also come out that children were spreading in unprecedented amounts and by 'punishing' them, millions of lives were saved the world over. One of the reasons, I think, that the Government is hanging on is because our death rate is appalling in world terms and the evidence on children as spreaders isn't as clear cut as posters here want to believe it is. The impact of children spreading in schools to each other - even on a tiny scale - and putting it back into their communities is, potentially, enormous.

Getting it 'right' now is a logistical nightmare but if it goes really wrong, the death rate will continue to rise exponentially. At least now there is an element of control.

Oh all that and the fact that test and trace really isn't up and working, isit?

I think part of the frustration is that in many, many walks of life, we are seeing businesses and organisations make fast, effective changes. But that problem solving ability seems to be non-existent around schooling. I work for a small homelessness charity - our processes and procedures have basically had to be totally torn up and rewritten: in a context where we have vulnerable adults and staff, we had to juggle that around ensuring we were keeping people as safe as possible from covid AND also thinking about MH, trauma, food poverty, shared housing protocols etc. I DO get that the processes for schools are much, much more complex due to the scale, but I'm bemused at the apparent lack of planning or strategic thinking that seems to have occurred over a space of 9 weeks: not from teachers individually, but from the system collectively. I don't understand why there isn't a centralised team churning out high quality resources (videos/work sheet) that all state schools can use (I know Oak is great for primary) or why there isn't a centralised guidance on how schools can support the most vulnerable, with small group lessons on simple video platforms; why there isn't a mass move to arm vulnerable kids with the tech they need to manage distance learning etc. I know of a few pockets of absolute excellence, but it's the lack of structure that is totally baffling to me...

the death rate will continue to rise exponentially

The death rate has been falling for 2 months.

Nihil would you like to explain why you hate the teaching profession so much? You don't listen to anything that teachers tell you on these threads and the vitriol you spout is disgusting.

Yes, I am a teacher. Before you ask, today is not a day I work. However, I am still online responding to messages and supporting my job-share. Some teachers and schools may not be doing exactly as you wish. However, so many are working ridiculously hard to support children and families during this global pandemic.

Again Nihil, explain to us why you detest teachers so much .

@Mascotte

Schools can be opened perfectly safely by going back as normal.

Interesting. What do you know about Covid19 and the way it works, and the way schools work, that makes you so sure? When the Government, scientists, medical staff, etc both here and abroad feel differently?

Unfortunately you cannot forbid negative comments about teachers as a whole, or any other profession

What we can protest about however, is people who think they understand how schools work when it is obvious to anyone who works in a school that they don't and we can correct people saying 'teachers do/teachers don't...' when we know as indivdiuals we are doing/not doing whatever it is that poster thinks we are/aren't doing!

What you don't get with other professions on this kind of generalised forum is the utter bollox, half truths and lies said about us as a group because people don't dare to presume they know how hospitals/police stations/post office workers/chefs....do their job and accept that there is behind the scenes 'stuff' that goes on they are not party to. It does seem to be the case, however, that every man and his dog absolutely knows how to run a school and the rules and regulations we are subject to in doing that!

How brilliant to hear a "man's" opinion, breadwidow. That should help reassure everyone.

Sockyarn: "Teachers are paid to TEACH CHILDREN..."
GPs are paid to see patients. Can't get into the surgery to see one for love nor money.

"Schools need to be back in August full time or teachers need to be teaching full time online. No excuses. Or if they're not prepared to do that, reduce their salary accordingly and pay someone who will."
So, surgeries need to be back open full time. No excuses. Or if they're not prepared to do that, reduce their salary accordingly and pay someone who will.

Not seeing much of this view. Hell no, we clapped the NHS every Thursday for 10 weeks. All of them, not just the front-line Covid crew.
What's the difference?
GPs are seeing patients in a different capacity at the moment. Teachers are working in a different way also. Why so much hatred for schools and so little for GPs?
N.B. I'm not suggesting we should hate GPs, just drawing a comparison.

The death rate has been falling for 2 months

It's not particularly helpful to take a comment like that out of context, is it?

The death rate has been falling for 2 months

You've got to hope so, when we've been in (partial) lockdown.

Watch what happens to it now tens of thousands of people have been mixing at close quarters on marches and on beaches and in parks.

@Lostmyshityear9

The death rate has been falling for 2 months

It's not particularly helpful to take a comment like that out of context, is it?

It wasn't out of context. You said continue to rise. They're not rising?

@CallmeAngelina

The death rate has been falling for 2 months

You've got to hope so, when we've been in (partial) lockdown.

Watch what happens to it now tens of thousands of people have been mixing at close quarters on marches and on beaches and in parks.

The same thing that happened on ve day?

CallmeAngelina people have been mixing at beaches and in parks since mid May. Deaths, and new infections, still continue to fall.

I'm bemused at the apparent lack of planning or strategic thinking that seems to have occurred over a space of 9 weeks: not from teachers individually, but from the system collectively. I don't understand why there isn't a centralised team churning out high quality resources (videos/work sheet) that all state schools can use (I know Oak is great for primary) or why there isn't a centralised guidance on how schools can support the most vulnerable, with small group lessons on simple video platforms; why there isn't a mass move to arm vulnerable kids with the tech they need to manage distance learning etc. I know of a few pockets of absolute excellence, but it's the lack of structure that is totally baffling to me...

This.

There are going to be children who can't get back as there in high risk catergories and need access to distance learning - on-line school do already exist so if they can't set one up paying for access for existing one for them could be explored rather than leaving it to schools and parents to muddle through.

But if schools aren't going back to normal in Septemeber after missing an entire term where does that leave Y10 GCSE students and Y12 AS-level. Y10 especially if there in bubbles options and sets won't work.

Entire subjects for DD1 haven't set anything in 12 weeks and she'll be sitting exams next to state and priavate schools who've kept entire timetables going. Even adjusting grading curves to try and take account of disruption isn't going to make that a fair playing field.

@AndwhenyougetthereFoffsomemore I agree with everything you've said.

And just because we have to say this loud and clear I do not blame teachers or schools for this or expect them to come up with solutions unsupported.
Nurses didn't build the nightingales did they?

The french science minister said yesterday that they should never have closed schools there and he wants full school ASAP. His view was that kids don't really transmit in the same way as adults. Hopefully the french will get their pupils back to school ASAP to set a precedent that we can follow.

@Kazzyhoward

I think schools could have stayed open until at least Easter and we'd be in no different position

Except schools were already closing prior to lockdown due to staff sickness, self isolation, deep cleaning, etc. My son's school had officially closed to all but years 11 and 13 in the week prior to lockdown as they had so many teachers off work self isolating.

How utterly selfish of them. Trying to stop their staff dying or becoming disabled and ditto their pupils. Horrendous dereliction of duty.

And to the poster who threw their Yr 6 child’s suicidal threats into the mix and blamed me, nah, not having that. An 11 yr old who is having mental health difficulties to that extent has way more going on than their school closing. I sincerely hope you are able to stop deflecting blame onto a pandemic and that they get the help they need

It wasn't out of context. You said continue to rise. They're not rising?

Yes, it is out of context and you know perfectly well what was meant by the comment in that context. But if it helps you, I will change it to 'death rates will re-rise'. Better?

Nurses didn't build the nightingales did they?

Nope. And if things had gone differently and hospital capacity had been over-whelmed, neither would nurses have been blamed then either.

I like the teacher vs. GP comparison up thread. Very apt.

And to the poster who threw their Yr 6 child’s suicidal threats into the mix and blamed me, nah, not having that. An 11 yr old who is having mental health difficulties to that extent has way more going on than their school closing. I sincerely hope you are able to stop deflecting blame onto a pandemic and that they get the help they need flowers

That is hugely fucking offensive and likely bollocks. You should be ashamed of yourself.

@Lostmyshityear9 probably should be "might" because we don't know if they will do we?

Because there is now more information on the virus, in March it was largely unknown. Now we know that a whole generation of children are being shafted to mainly protect those over 60. Those over 60 are still going to NT places, garden centre's and now non essential shops etc but our children aren't even allowed to the playground or zoo. It is disproportionate to the risk it presents to the children

I’m livid about how our children’s futures are being sacrificed for those mainly over 70 and mainly in care homes. It’s disgusting

If you apply the same action to schools as they did to hospitals, they would be building new temporary classrooms, investing in outdoor classrooms

Exactly a number of comparisons to Luxembourg on this thread- who only reopened primary schools very recently btw - but left out a number of facts, one important one is that they hired hundreds of extra staff in order to do this safely. Possible partly because Luxembourg is tiny and extremely wealthy! This meant that they could run smaller classes.
luxtimes.lu/luxembourg/40755-hundreds-of-extra-staff-hired-for-primary-school-reopening

They also issued masks to students and staff, and children over 6 wear them, as well as building multiple disinfection stations within schools. Cafeterias are closed down, and no PE. They still only run limited provision but instead have provided provision for alternative childcare.

Primary school pupils will be split into two groups, with each cohort alternating attendance in public schools in order to reduce class sizes and limit the chances of spreading coronavirus.
During the weeks when learners are not in school, alternative childcare arrangements will be made in communes where possible. Additional education staff were hired to greet children upon arrival in school, to supervise and work with learners during the week they are not present in school and cover where teachers are not able to return to work.
delano.lu/d/detail/news/mass-recruitment-drive-primary-school-reopening/210533

I might of missed it somewhere but surely if the can knock up 3 hospitals in a few week they can knock up mobile classrooms. They might not be perfect but as long as they are useable it would able children to get back to school.

Is it the same people who wanted the closed, now calling for them to get back to normal or have the original campaigners gone quiet/new people got louder?

I never called for them to be closed, am dubious that there has been much benefit to having them closed, want them re opened and think the measures being put in place are disproportionate and cause far more disruption than they reduce risk.

Say that though and you get a load of "you want people to diiiiiiiieeeeee, you are teacher bashing, you are selfish" in response. And raise concerns about the lockdown and the extended enforced absence from education and its impact on children and you just get sneered at, told you are teacher bashing again and patronised by someone who thinks if we were just a bit more resilient mental health issues would disappear.