How/when did the tide turn on schools?

[LaceCurtains]

In the beginning the mood here was almost desperate calling for schools to be closed.

In the last week or so there's been a marked shift to getting them open (from peope here).

Is it the same people who wanted the closed, now calling for them to get back to normal or have the original campaigners gone quiet/new people got louder?

FWIW I always thought schools closed as early as they did because of public pressure and it seems to me that "other" things are getting back to normal more quickly than originally planned/expected (because of DC and the need to distract?) but schools don't seem to be included in that.

I'm at a loss as to why schools are being treated so differently. I'm SLT in school, if that makes a difference and the government guidance is a shambles. Changes daily but doesn't seem to have any clear aim.

@Longwhiskers14

See government guidance below. Not sure why that's confusing

You think it’s a normal and proportionate response to a school closing that an 11yr old talks of suicide?

I think it's completely understandable. This has been very hard for many children. Your total lack of understanding is troubling.

Jane in that case I'd say your "we would LOVE to have the children back" isn't quite as sincere then as you're making more trouble for yourself than is required.

Our local authority has advised schools to adopt 2m. Schools are getting guidance locally as well as national.

Schools aren’t just making it up.

Incredibly hard, yes. To the point of threatening suicide? No. There’s not an educational or psychological professional out there who would not be concerned about suicidal ideation or threats from an 11 yr old in response to all schools closing (so all Yr 6 not in school).
There will be other factors at play and I hope the parent stops blaming teachers and gets them the help they need.

Iwantacookie Again, great idea but in theory all those volunteers would need DBS checks for safeguarding and that would take time. Part-time could work, but that doesn't help parents who work. I agree though - from day one there should've been an education task force set up with ministers, members of SAGE and head teachers to keep working on a plan. Instead, the Govt came up with their own without properly consulting either and now we're in this sorry mess.

snowballer I think you'll find it's in the last line: minimising contact and mixing. The best way to do that? Enforce the 2m rule. Bear in mind we're now being told as adults by the Govt that face coverings are mandatory on public transport and enclosed settings (pretty sure classrooms come under that) and we still have to queue 2m apart for a pint of milk, I'm not sure why you think schools are being OTT for adhering to a rule the rest of us still have to follow?

To add, I would be very worried about what might be going on at home if school was seen as such a sanctuary that, when taken away, a young child felt they could not cope. Maybe that’s why a parent would rather blame teachers for something that is out of their control.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/305525

Petition to reopen schools

@ProfessorHasturLaVista

To add, I would be very worried about what might be going on at home if school was seen as such a sanctuary that, when taken away, a young child felt they could not cope. Maybe that’s why a parent would rather blame teachers for something that is out of their control.

I'd be worried too. Would I accuse the parents of something untoward going on at home? No.

There are hundreds of reasons why kids aren't coping now and they're not all neglect and abuse. Your attitude is horrific.

20% of safeguarding concerns come from schools

Abused children are now locked up with their abusers

This needs to stop now.

There’s not an educational or psychological professional out there who would not be concerned about suicidal ideation or threats from an 11 yr old in response to all schools closing

And yet, there are a lot of children of that age and younger feeling depressed and hopeless and not seeing what they have to live for.

Lockdown is an entirely unnatural way for a social species to live and the mental health impacts are profound.

I would expect anyone who spent time with children to appreciate how risky this experiment with their mental health is.

@Nihiloxica

There’s not an educational or psychological professional out there who would not be concerned about suicidal ideation or threats from an 11 yr old in response to all schools closing

And yet, there are a lot of children of that age and younger feeling depressed and hopeless and not seeing what they have to live for.

Lockdown is an entirely unnatural way for a social species to live and the mental health impacts are profound.

I would expect anyone who spent time with children to appreciate how risky this experiment with their mental health is.

Thank you. You said that so much better than me.

sausagepastapot Schools aren't closed though. They never were. They were open for key worker children and now they're open for those cherry-picked years. A better petition would be: Can the Govt come up with a cohesive, science-backed plan to get ALL our children back to school.

"@YounghillKang that's not the point. The point is the poster who is a governor has misunderstood the guidelines and is trying to achieve something that's not required and saying as a consequence they can't have all of the specified year groups back. I'd be pretty unhappy if I was a parent at that school"
THIS. I am a parent at a school who has interpreted the guidance like this so will not be taking back Yr1 despite it being achievable. The desks for reception are spaced out throughout the school at 2 meters, so only 8 to a class/bubble. Then they go out to play in their 'bubbles' with no social distancing at all... doesn't make sense.

Snowballer I think you'll find it's in the last line: minimising contact and mixing. The best way to do that? Enforce the 2m rule. Bear in mind we're now being told as adults by the Govt that face coverings are mandatory on public transport and enclosed settings (pretty sure classrooms come under that) and we still have to queue 2m apart for a pint of milk, I'm not sure why you think schools are being OTT for adhering to a rule the rest of us still have to follow?

I'm not sure why you selectively quote that line when the start of the guidance specifically states that children cannot be expected to follow the 2m distance rule 😂

There are hundreds of reasons why kids aren't coping now and they're not all neglect and abuse. Your attitude is horrific.

Indeed. Hundreds and thousands of children are very upset and distressed. They aren’t threatening suicide.
I’d just be very concerned and pass that on to the relevant agencies who might be able to help the family and find out what support they need.
It’s not ‘horrific’, it’s Safeguarding.
In what possible world is My child says they will kill themselves SO OPEN THEIR SCHOOL FULLY a reasonable request? Come on, have a word with yourself.

@Nihiloxica

There’s not an educational or psychological professional out there who would not be concerned about suicidal ideation or threats from an 11 yr old in response to all schools closing

And yet, there are a lot of children of that age and younger feeling depressed and hopeless and not seeing what they have to live for.

Lockdown is an entirely unnatural way for a social species to live and the mental health impacts are profound.

I would expect anyone who spent time with children to appreciate how risky this experiment with their mental health is.

I might not agree with you on everything Nihiloxica, but I agree with this 100%! My Y6 came back from her first day yesterday like a different child. The impact of lockdown was huge and being back in a school setting with her friends lifted her mood no end. It's scary the mental load it's putting on kids.

There’s not an educational or psychological professional out there who would not be concerned about suicidal ideation or threats from an 11 yr old in response to all schools closing

It isn't JUST the schools though is it? It's everything else. My 12 year old feels suicidal. There is absolutely nothing untoward going on at home and prior to all of this he was a happy bouncy kid full of life.

Almost everything he enjoys has been taken away. It isn't just school but all the other extra curricular activities. He's isolated, he can see no end on sight.

@Iwantacookie

I might of missed it somewhere but surely if the can knock up 3 hospitals in a few week they can knock up mobile classrooms. They might not be perfect but as long as they are useable it would able children to get back to school.

Firstly, many schools have nowhere for mobile classrooms to go. Or only room for a small amount, which still raises questions about who goes back next. If additional buildings around the place are commandeered there are lots of other factors to consider: security, outdoor space, internet access, child-size chairs/tables/toilets, moving equipment from school building to these new classrooms and overnight security of anything left on-site, ensuring there are separate staff and pupil toilets. One two-form entry school might need an additional 10-14 extra buildings/rooms which would almost certainly be spread out across an area. How would you guarantee safety of staff and pupils? At least the hospitals were in one big building that could be contained.

Secondly, staff. Where would all the additional staff come from? Okay, supply teachers would fill some gaps, as would those who've just finished their teaching (despite only spending half the time in schools they usually have to to qualify). But they all need up-to-date DBS checks. They would need paying. Who is going to check on them if they're teaching in a remote classroom? They may be trying to deliver the curriculum with no books, resources, technology.

It's not as easy as you think, saying "just whack up some mobile classrooms".

Personally, I think all social distancing and use of PPE should be scrapped except for those in care settings/Covid wards and everything should just go back to normal. People can choose if they wish to mix with others a bit, a lot or not at all.

Sorry, I'm based outside the UK. Has the government increased the budget for schools in the UK? Has any money been offered to support better ICT provision for schools and home learners? Is there money available to make the modifications to classrooms and school buildings?

How can children return to school if the school can't afford to make the changes that are necessary?

There are hundreds of reasons why kids aren't coping now and they're not all neglect and abuse. Your attitude is horrific

Yes I agree. This is a totally unnatural situation. I realised that for two whole months my dc hadn't spoken to another human being in the flesh apart from each other and me and dh. This is not healthy or conducive to good mental health.

I've watched my children become mentally ill and the youngest is a shell of his former self. Nursery age and hasn't seen anyone in months. I'm getting pretty fucking angry about this now.

I think there seems to be a big class differential here, and some evidence of a racial one as well.

DS's primary is almost entirely middle class - they have had 100% of kids elegible to return coming back.

My nephew is at a much more mixed primary and my sister has said that only the white middle class kids who have returned. BAME presumably and understandably reluctant because of the higher risk profile, white working class - maybe a mixture of people already having lost jobs and increasing feeling of mistrust of gov and fear of the worst case figures?

@ProfessorHasturLaVista

There are hundreds of reasons why kids aren't coping now and they're not all neglect and abuse. Your attitude is horrific.

Indeed. Hundreds and thousands of children are very upset and distressed. They aren’t threatening suicide.
I’d just be very concerned and pass that on to the relevant agencies who might be able to help the family and find out what support they need.
It’s not ‘horrific’, it’s Safeguarding.
In what possible world is My child says they will kill themselves SO OPEN THEIR SCHOOL FULLY a reasonable request? Come on, have a word with yourself.

A lot of them are though this is the thing. Some have gone through with it. It doesn't mean they have underlying mh issues. They are lonely. They are scared. They have had their normal entirely removed. They are not allowed to do anything or go anywhere. They are being talked about like they are diseased. An 11yo will fully understand all this.

Passing it onto relevant agencies is fine. And when that comes back fine, then want? Continue to blame the parents?

No, it's not a reasonable request. But it makes a hard hitting point of what will happen if schools remain closed.

I would expect anyone who spent time with children to appreciate how risky this experiment with their mental health is.

As risky as having classmates, friends, teachers, dinner ladies, volunteer readers die? As risky as having a grandparent or parent die? A sibling?

That would be most excellent for the mental health of a school cohort, wouldn’t it

We should be teaching our children resilience. That 8 weeks out of school is hard, but not impossible. That we will all get through this as a family, as a school community, by thinking of others and just doing our best to get through it.

I know Rec age children who can understand this better than some of the parents on here.