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Original poster

How/when did the tide turn on schools?

732 replies

LaceCurtains · 09/06/2020 07:19

In the beginning the mood here was almost desperate calling for schools to be closed.

In the last week or so there's been a marked shift to getting them open (from peope here).

Is it the same people who wanted the closed, now calling for them to get back to normal or have the original campaigners gone quiet/new people got louder?

FWIW I always thought schools closed as early as they did because of public pressure and it seems to me that "other" things are getting back to normal more quickly than originally planned/expected (because of DC and the need to distract?) but schools don't seem to be included in that.

I'm at a loss as to why schools are being treated so differently. I'm SLT in school, if that makes a difference and the government guidance is a shambles. Changes daily but doesn't seem to have any clear aim.

OP posts:
DomDoesWotHeWants · 09/06/2020 11:59

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Lostmyshityear9 · 09/06/2020 12:01

I think schools could have stayed open until at least Easter and we'd be in no different position

With all due respect, you're a teacher/SLT in a school. You're not a scientist trained and experienced in virology and/or epidemiology. You can't possible know what position we would be in today if we hadn't closed schools when we did.

moose62 · 09/06/2020 12:01

I work at a school and social distancing and having all the children back is impossible. We have 1400 students, we do not have the space to make them all social distance. So the choice is, either do it piecemeal and the students suffer or just open the school up and ignore the social distancing which would then put others at risk. I think we will have no choice but to go for the latter if we don't want to lose a whole year group of children's education. Other school staff may not agree with me however!

Bollss · 09/06/2020 12:03

I really don't understand why schools can't have bubbles of 30. Because come September bubbles of 15 part time will be inherently pointless.

Equally I don't understand why cases mean whole schools are closing. They aren't required to. That is exactly the point of the sodding bubbles.

Kazzyhoward · 09/06/2020 12:03

It is remarkable to see how the private shops and cafes have adapted and made massive efforts to open and continue business whilst teachers/unions can't seem to be able to.

Difference is small business owners are not sat at home on full pay so there's a massive incentive for them to find ways to carry on as close to "normal" as they can.

Kazzyhoward · 09/06/2020 12:05

I think schools could have stayed open until at least Easter and we'd be in no different position

Except schools were already closing prior to lockdown due to staff sickness, self isolation, deep cleaning, etc. My son's school had officially closed to all but years 11 and 13 in the week prior to lockdown as they had so many teachers off work self isolating.

HipTightOnions · 09/06/2020 12:05

I really don't understand why schools can't have bubbles of 30.

Secondary schools can’t have bubbles at all. Pupils are taught in different groups for different subjects because of (i) different subject options (ii) setting (iii) timetabling constraints.

Nihiloxica · 09/06/2020 12:10

You can't possible know what position we would be in today if we hadn't closed schools when we did.

Nobody can.

It's the lockdown incentive problem: if you tell people to lockdown, you can ALWAYS claim it would have been worse if lockdown hadn't happened, or been shorter, or less strict.

Even when the peak of deaths occurred too early for the lockdown to have had any impact, people apparently will still believe your initial worst case scenario as having been prevented by their sacrifice.

HipTightOnions · 09/06/2020 12:10

It is remarkable to see how the private shops and cafes have adapted... small business owners are not sat at home on full pay so there's a massive incentive for them to find ways

Queuing, social distancing, PPE... none of which are possible in schools.

Closing down parts of the organisation...?

Remote working from home... ?

What else might schools try?

Longwhiskers14 · 09/06/2020 12:11

I really don't understand why schools can't have bubbles of 30.

Because the scientific advice via the Govt is still keep them 2m apart – so you'd need classrooms the size of school halls to accommodate their desks. Fine for one class, but what about the dozens of others? And that's just primaries - as HipTightOnions says, it's impossible to bubble secondary school pupils going to different subject classes.

Bollss · 09/06/2020 12:13

@Longwhiskers14

I really don't understand why schools can't have bubbles of 30.

Because the scientific advice via the Govt is still keep them 2m apart – so you'd need classrooms the size of school halls to accommodate their desks. Fine for one class, but what about the dozens of others? And that's just primaries - as HipTightOnions says, it's impossible to bubble secondary school pupils going to different subject classes.

Primary kids aren't social distancing anyway so wouldn't make a difference.

Secondary admittedly I have no idea!

Longwhiskers14 · 09/06/2020 12:14

TrustTheGeneGenie Our primary is. Well, as much as they can get kids to SD!

DomDoesWotHeWants · 09/06/2020 12:15

Well, I see the teacher haters were quick on the report button.

I'll say it again. Stop blaming teachers for government policy.

Boris has done a wonderful job of turning parents against teachers.

And some people on social media are only too happy to help him.

admission · 09/06/2020 12:16

There is a technical issue and that is there is no way out of "bubbles of 15 or less" because you cannot magic up double the number of classrooms and teachers to allow this to happen so that all pupils are back in school full time. Basic maths should have told the government that a long time ago.
It comes down to when are the DfE and the government going to accept that the lesser of 2 evils is to return to the situation prior to March and have all pupils in full time education and allow more normality over social distancing.
The government need to make an absolute decision all school open as normal from X date, tell everybody involved in Local Authorities, unions, parents etc that this is not a request it is a legal requirement. There are issues around staff who will be being exposed much more than they have been and are vulnerable but this is part of the balancing act the government have to manage in order to get schools back to a level of normality. Until there is a directive to go back, there will always be a sizeable minority who will not return for all sorts of reasons.

Bollss · 09/06/2020 12:16

@Longwhiskers14

TrustTheGeneGenie Our primary is. Well, as much as they can get kids to SD!
They don't need to though do they?

If we are ever going to give kids a proper education something has to give.

Bollss · 09/06/2020 12:17

@DomDoesWotHeWants

Well, I see the teacher haters were quick on the report button.

I'll say it again. Stop blaming teachers for government policy.

Boris has done a wonderful job of turning parents against teachers.

And some people on social media are only too happy to help him.

I don't hate teachers.

I want schools open. We need teachers. They're very good at what they do and we can't replicate it at home.

Calling people dim was never going to be ok.

Longwhiskers14 · 09/06/2020 12:19

TrustTheGeneGenie Well, the Govt's just announced a comprehensive sampling test scheme in schools over the next few weeks, to see if/how the virus can spread in a school setting. If there was no need at all to keep 2m apart, why are they concerned enough to do this?

AlexTheLittleCat · 09/06/2020 12:20

@Gfplux

News from Luxembourg today.rtl.lu/news/luxembourg/a/1531026.html

No second wave (yet)

Luxembourg have a very low death rate (only 110 deaths in total), that's why the school reopening hasn't been an issue. We needed to lockdown earlier in March (but for a much shorter time) before our rates went up. If we had, we would be closer to normal now. Many of the countries that are opening up locked down earlier and had much lower rates of infection/deaths than us:

www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/luxembourg/

I'd like to think schools will be back as normal in September but I don't think they will unfortunately. Our local school already has the same number of bubbles as they have classrooms and that is with four year groups missing. It's a logistical nightmare for schools. I hope they can improve the online provision if they aren't able to offer in-school teaching as otherwise the children will miss out on so much, it will be six months in September.

Waxonwaxoff0 · 09/06/2020 12:20

I don't hate teachers and I don't blame them. I rely on teachers to educate my DS properly as I'm not capable of doing it myself. That's why I want schools open. I blame the government for the shoddy handling of this entire pandemic.

Dissimilitude · 09/06/2020 12:21

I accept the argument that teachers are not really in control of when schools can reopen, and have to follow social distancing guidance when they do.

I can't accept that teachers just throw an hours worth of half-hearted re-hashed online exercise at my kids every day between now and god knows when.

There's no excuse for such a zero-effort online learning programme.

Bollss · 09/06/2020 12:21

@Longwhiskers14

TrustTheGeneGenie Well, the Govt's just announced a comprehensive sampling test scheme in schools over the next few weeks, to see if/how the virus can spread in a school setting. If there was no need at all to keep 2m apart, why are they concerned enough to do this?
That's great.

We won't know whether there was a need for it until long after this was all over.

The who only reccomends 1m though!

It may come out that children barely spread it and we will have punished them all for no reason!

DomDoesWotHeWants · 09/06/2020 12:23

Calling people dim was never going to be ok.

But the name calling all over this site of teachers is ok.

Right.

NeedingCoffee · 09/06/2020 12:24

@admission

There is a technical issue and that is there is no way out of "bubbles of 15 or less" because you cannot magic up double the number of classrooms and teachers to allow this to happen so that all pupils are back in school full time. Basic maths should have told the government that a long time ago. It comes down to when are the DfE and the government going to accept that the lesser of 2 evils is to return to the situation prior to March and have all pupils in full time education and allow more normality over social distancing. The government need to make an absolute decision all school open as normal from X date, tell everybody involved in Local Authorities, unions, parents etc that this is not a request it is a legal requirement. There are issues around staff who will be being exposed much more than they have been and are vulnerable but this is part of the balancing act the government have to manage in order to get schools back to a level of normality. Until there is a directive to go back, there will always be a sizeable minority who will not return for all sorts of reasons.
Absolutely agree with this. And the sooner the better.
Bollss · 09/06/2020 12:24

@DomDoesWotHeWants

Calling people dim was never going to be ok.

But the name calling all over this site of teachers is ok.

Right.

Report it. MN will delete anything that breaks the rules.
DomDoesWotHeWants · 09/06/2020 12:26

Report it. MN will delete anything that breaks the rules.

I'm not that petty.

MNHQ have been very unsupportive of teachers throughout, which is why the teacher bashers still get away with it.