What is the long term plan for schools?

[TeaAndASitDown]

My 5yo is back at school and it seems to be a nurturing and calm environment so far. However, the school is only running at about 15% capacity I'd guess.

With no further lockdown planned over the summer, what are the govt planning to do about education come September?

Will they scrap social distancing in schools, or will all children only attend half the time? I can't think of any other real option?

Personally I would like to see a strict lockdown over summer, eradicate community transmission, properly quarantine people coming in to the country. Then we have a fair shot at restarting education properly in September.

No it's exactly the same list as before Covid. 1 patient booked every 5 minutes. Including donning, doffing and cleaning. How we will socially distance the waiting room, we'll have to trial it out or find more waiting areas! I don't know yet how many will attend their appointments. But we used to estimate accurately based on previous attendance and overbook the lists accordingly

Are you in a GP practice? Is that a govt directive to go back to booking as usual? It doesn’t sound like a decision anyone actually running a service would make....

Yes I'm sorry I brought up the whole NHS/Education comparisons. It's just 2 huge organisations trying to work around Covid at a national and local level. But they're very different, I see that

I wasn’t objecting to your comparison- it’s just a trope that’s used on here to have a go at us lazy, militant teachers

No it's not a GP, it's an outpatient clinic.

We have socially distanced waiting area space, just have to make sure we don't get behind on the times and the area doesn't fill. We're usually ok keeping up.
Obviously if it doesn't work, we'll have to reduce the lists.

I’ve no idea what is going to happen I’m in Scotland so no return until August which is fine as mine attend the hub at the moment as I am a community nurse already on flexible working policy working part time on set days and DH is an agricultural engineer doing a specialised job only he does and works away a lot, he has been back at work for a month now. My 3 DC are all different ages and different stages, one starting secondary school after summer. Honestly don’t know how we will cope, we have a childminder for the holidays but she has 2 DC who she will also need to homeschool not to mention the cost.

In my area childminders are thin on the ground as are nurseries with places for more than one child and I’d quite a few are in the same boat it will be near impossible to find one. My Rota is done months in advance due to the pandemic at the moment as well, there is no way we can plan for this

This article about Wuhan/China is 18 hours old & describes...

"Beijing city will lower its emergency response to the novel coronavirus epidemic from the second level to the third level starting Saturday, a local official announced on Friday.

On May 17, the Beijing Centre for Disease Prevention and Control said it was not necessary to wear masks.

On Friday, the Beijing municipal government said the city will lift purchasing restrictions on plane and train tickets for people from the central province of Hubei province including those from the provincial capital Wuhan, except those from medium- and high-risk areas.

The residential compounds in Beijing will no longer need to take people’s temperatures, although registration is still needed, Chen Bei, deputy secretary-general of the Beijing municipal government told the media here.

In the tourism sector, Beijing will allow domestic group tours under proper conditions, except those from medium- and high-risk areas. Inbound and outbound group tours will remain suspended.

Parks, tourist sites and public indoor venues will allow more visitors under strict prevention and control measures.

Some events, such as conferences, exhibitions, sports matches, and entertainment shows, can be held under some restrictions , according to the municipal government.

Schools can resume classes in an orderly manner and masks will not be required for outdoor activities. (does that mean face covers are required for indoor activities in schools?)

Closer to 'normal' but still not 'normal. That article doesn't describe private gatherings, such as weddings. Are private gatherings of large size involving multiple households indoors now allowed? Not allowed 3 weeks ago but maybe now.

Schools can resume classes in an orderly manner and masks will not be required for outdoor activities. (does that mean face covers are required for indoor activities in schools?)

It certainly does sound like it.

As the furlough scheme starts to wind down over the summer and employees who can’t work from home have to return to work, schools will have to return to full time operation.

No they won't. I'm so fed up with reading that schools "have to open". They don't. They can't. They don't have the space or the staff.

Saying it has to happen is pointless when it can't. Some old schools will only be able to safely take 10 per class because if space restrictions.

Social distancing will have to happen for a long time yet for the safety of everyone.

12 children (under 14) in Ireland tested positive this week. Children do get it and thus could pass it on.

@Bluebell1995

There needs to be some similar forward planning in schools. There's plenty of time between now and September

Can I remind you that the NHS closed to many, many people. Cancer treatment stopped for some. People had routine operations cancelled. The NHS has not been open to capacity as normal, it was redesigned quickly to cope largely with Covid. People can’t see their doctor or dentist in many cases.

Schools similarly can’t bring all children back. How are we that different?

@DBML we're talking about September, not now, or then.

Our department will be back to full capacity and more by July unless there's a sudden spike in infections.

Bluebell, but that is like schools who have admitted Y6 saying 'we are back up to full capacity for Y6, as from Monday 1st'.

The question which matches 'full opening for schools' is, will ALL of the NHS be fully open, for all, with the same waiting lists as before, at full capacity for September?

When we are talking about plans changing, it does matter what the scale of changes demanded are.

Most schools planned, internally, on the return of Y6, Y10 and Y12 - ie 1/7 (or 8) years of primary schools, 2/7 for secondary schools, and with all children capable of social distancing.

Then it was announced that it would be Nursery, Reception, Y1 and Y6 would return, so 3/7 or 4/8 years of primary, none in secondary, and the very youngest years.

So schools re-planned - often on the basis of rotas.

Then - with a couple of weeks to go - they were told no rotas.

There were then a huge number of 'tinkering' changes, but it was that total change in year groups, and then total change in approach (rotas vs no rotas) that meant the whole system had to be re-planned every time.

As each change has to be communicated to the full parent body every time (think about communicating with every person on the NHS waiting list every time a change is made in hospitals), it has been really difficult.

If the Government releases the overall strategy' NOW - as Scotland have done, as unpopular though that strategy may be, it is at least clear - or even a range of options, THEN there will be time to plan.

As it is,. we are still awaiting the plans for the promised return of all other primary years, for which we have no guidance at all. We know the guidance CAN'T be the same, but we have no idea what it will be - and the proposed starting date is in a fortnight....

@cantkeepawayforever it's so infuriating to read that the guidelines are so unhelpful and rushed at the last minute. It sounds impossible.

No I don't know whether the full NHS will be open by September, it needs to be though or the backlash will be huge. Again, there needs to ways and means of adapting to working with Covid-19 around. Sheilding staff and patients could be an exception, as with shielding school staff and students. I did see shielded patients this week for routine appts, they made their own risk assessment on whether to attend.

I know barely any primaries opening round here at all apart from keyworker children at the minute, so they won't be accommodating the rest of the years.

I agree the dfe need to get a plan out for September, this academic year is a write off now tbh. It would give everyone more realistic expectations and time to feedback their concerns or find ways adapt to the plan. We know it could all go tits up if the R rate increases, but please give us a plan at least!

One school here opened a bubble and has had to close it again because a child tested positive. The parent had sent the child in, despite the GP advising a test.

@cantkeepawayforever

Thank you for saving me time!
Yep, NHS comparison is NHS working at full capacity. It won’t be. Neither will schools. It’s shit.

@DomDoesWotHeWants

This is going to be a huge problem. Parents who can’t take time off work, or in some cases just desperately want their child in school, lying that their child is OK. Not stopping to think about the bigger picture, just what’s most convenient in the moment.

It happens a lot already, we always get sick children sent to us. Sometimes we have children sat at the back who can barely raise their head off the desk; children who aren’t collected following having a fit and even parents who insisted over the phone that their child probably hadn’t broken his arm, so to let him get on with his day at school...despite the fact I was sat there trying to hold the two bones, which were at a funny angle together. Ambulance called, staff having to stay with the boy at hospital.

@teaandsitdown
How do you think all the business will survive another lockdown ? They won't you will have nothing to come out too

[quote DBML]@DomDoesWotHeWants

This is going to be a huge problem. Parents who can’t take time off work, or in some cases just desperately want their child in school, lying that their child is OK. Not stopping to think about the bigger picture, just what’s most convenient in the moment.

It happens a lot already, we always get sick children sent to us. Sometimes we have children sat at the back who can barely raise their head off the desk; children who aren’t collected following having a fit and even parents who insisted over the phone that their child probably hadn’t broken his arm, so to let him get on with his day at school...despite the fact I was sat there trying to hold the two bones, which were at a funny angle together. Ambulance called, staff having to stay with the boy at hospital.[/quote]
There were similar problems when I was teaching. One parents sent the DC in with a pillow and said she could sit with her head on the desk all day. I said that wasn't possible and she went off on one. The HT had to sort her out. She then refused to let us have a contact number for her new job. HT has to threaten her with social services.

Another time a parent sent a chicken poxed DC in with a bottle of calamine lotion. When contacted she said she couldn't leave work. Again HT said come now or Social services will.

Several stories like that. I think this is a case for saying the dreaded "school isn't child care!"

I am the head of a primary school and we are now open full time to all of Y6, Y1, Reception and key worker children, including in nursery. Most children are attending. All our rooms are in use, all staff deployed and there is no room for any flexibility. I have no idea when or how we can welcome extra children, but suspect that when it happens there will be no attempt at social distancing and we will be back to 30+ in a class.
There is allegedly extra funding available www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-financial-support-for-schools/school-funding-exceptional-costs-associated-with-coronavirus-covid-19-for-the-period-march-to-july-2020 but the hoops to jump through are extreme. The funniest is that (having just set the budget for next year) if our budget shows an in-year balance or credit, we do not qualify. As a local authority school, we are only allowed to set balanced or positive budgets so we are automatically disqualified. Also, as a recognition that staff worked over Easter and half term, we are told to use our supply budget for next year or approach the Regional Schools Commissioner (there are 6 for the whole of England).
I suspect the long term plan is to gently and subtly to transfer responsibility, and therefore blame, to schools, so parents take out their anger on us. I am currently dealing with parents of years 2 to 5 complaining that teachers can now only answer e-mails and phone calls after finishing teaching for the day, so their child is losing out.

I cannot understand why the OP wants another lockdown now and much more of a lock down than last time! OP even wants keyworker children not at school. Oh my the children of all the keyworkers at home - supermarkets/hospitals, care workers and all the rest of the multitude of people that work in key roles to keep us in food, the NHS going, care homes able to look after residents etc.... why exactly?

Do you want more people to die? Starvation? Suicide? Other diseases left if not immediately life threatening for your second and even deeper stricter lockdown? I hope no one listens to your extreme views.

CornwallLass

sounds a nightmare trying to keep parents of children who are not yet back happy sith set work etc whilst using staff to teach the ones that you have back in smaller groups. It must be really hard on schools that are really doing their best.

I was hoping that schools with space qould be allocated extra funding (without hoops to jump through) so that they might use supply teachers to increase numbers of staff for each school.

I am wondering what will happen over the summer with working parents not having the usual summer clubs and activities available to them. Again maybe holiday type clubs using school premises and supply teachers and other child minders to run with small numbers and following social distancing.

It's a minefield and I don't envy anyone having to organise it all.

A second lockdown in the style of the Spanish one. No thanks My family can social distance without having to be locked indoors for weeks.