Schools fubared till November?

[Clemmieandareallybigbunfight]

Disruption to schools could continue to November, MPs told www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-52895640

Is this a dystopian joke?

Are we actually trying to fuck up our kids?

Schools need to be instructed to open fully five days a week with enhanced on day cleaning, increased buses to allow distancing, staggered start and finish, covered but open refuge areas allowing distancing whilst outside in all weathers for breaks and no assemblies. Relatively low investment needed, huge gain economically but more importantly for our kids education and mental health. Some of these kids will never get back to school if they are out for so long. Some will fail to achieve their potential. And all for an illness with a tiny mortality rate overall?

I am also saddened at how many parents and children appear to find it hard to spend an extended length of time together.

Goady as fuck. But yeah, sometimes it is hard 24 hours a fucking day dealing with full time work, Sen kid, depressed kid, trying to be carer, teacher, cleaner, and dilligent worker and failing at all of them
Oh, and caring for numerous elderly at the same time!
Some people have no fucking imagination.

*snowballer

I'm pointing out to you that the facts that you are supporting are not facts.

Unless the rules have changed this is allowed.*

Well yes I'm sure it's allowed. It just doesn't seem very effective as a way of challenging statements you don't agree with. Surely if you feel strongly about it the thing to do is directly challenge the poster that wrote them on the particular points you want to debate. You can challenge me too if you like but I can't possibly respond as you haven't highlighted which ones you feel are inaccurate

ITonyah

The government were lobbied to provide laptops to pupils, this has allegedly been done, but I know of no pupils that have received one.

This doesn't mean that it hasn't happened, but none of the groups that I am on has seen one.

No I know what the furlough scheme is tonyah, I just meant that some workers are furloughed for childcare reasons.

And, actually, to follow up my own post, I think that is when it would be right to say children and education have been abandoned. The media, and the government, really don't care much about it. There is chaotic planning at best. And panic at the DfE.

I meant money to help them adapt schools for social distancing.

I think the economy as a whole is suffering more from the lack of sport, clubs, bars, restaurants, shops, coffee shops, festivals etc. Don't blame it all on the teachers please.

Schools are opening specifically to the least affected and potentially least transmitting year groups and the ones who are least able to work independently.

I'm really not worried about my y2 child who could be a more independent reader but isn't quite yet, has the basic skills for reading and writing and can follow the white rose maths by himself. Other children I would be worried about but luckily they're likely to be going in in many schools.

WRT schools enabling child care, the KW list has been increased. To support the economy safely.

This is how we stand currently. It's unclear how things will progress but it's possible it will be very similar in September and beyond..

If some schools are like ds, there isn't room for 2 metre social distancing on the corridors, each department is on a corridor with a dead end, so when classes are waiting outside classrooms there isn't room for 2 metres between each pupil in one class never mind 6 or 8. The school was designed for 1800 pupils but has 2180 crammed in. There simply aren't any spare classrooms to divide classes. Plus a lot of the pupils come from homes where there is no discipline & won't behave responsibly. I really feel for the staff.

Schools and unions have repeatedly spoken up about lack of funds. It isn't rocket science to realise that schools won't have a duplicate set of rooms and teachers so that class sizes of v15 can be accommodated. Government should have been immediately offering extra funding once they asked the schools to start to take more students in smaller groups.

@Piggywaspushed

nike the papers splashing styf about unions in their headlines are almost exclusively right wing media : Daily Mail , chiefly bit also The Times. Few other papers have shown interest or focused education reporting on the union angle.

In the last 15 briefings, 6 journalist questions have been directly about schools. The Ed Sec has done a grand total of 2 briefings.

This vilification of unions is very much channelled through a traditional anti union agenda and not something most people share as a concern.

That's not really the source of my interest in the unions, though, I hold a masters in international economics, and as part of that, we look closely at economic history and how trades unions activity has impacted the economic development of several different countries (mainly pre-eu European ones)

My interest in, and knowledge of the impact of trades unions has't been derived from the media, but from many years of post-graduate study.

It simply isn't a valid argument that everyone who sees the shortcomings of trades unions as a movement is a rabid right wing Daily Mail reader.

It's pretty ignorant of you to suggest that tbh.

It would be a brave school that went against the DfE guidance on clinically vulnerable staff in their risk assessment:

"clinically vulnerable, meaning that they are at increased risk of severe illness from coronavirus such as those who are pregnant, are advised to take extra care in observing social distancing and should work from home where possible. Education and childcare settings should endeavour to support this, for example by asking staff to support remote education, carry out lesson planning or other roles which can be done from home."

snowballer

We can start with most of the union posts.

Or even the one about teachers to a (wo)man, but even you have agreed that was incorrect.

Or teachers being responsible for government policies.

As for challenging the poster, they are already being challenged and are intransigent in their views. So as with many views, changing the support base is normal.

Schools and unions have repeatedly spoken up about lack of funds

I am surprised they haven't tried to make more plans to open secondary schools and asked for the money to do it. They would almost certainly get the cash to do it if they could come up with a plan.

Nat over crowding has become an issue in many schools; we have 30% more than we were supposed to take as an Sen school.

I think the economy as a whole is suffering more from the lack of sport, clubs, bars, restaurants, shops, coffee shops, festivals etc. Don't blame it all on the teachers please.

But @NeurotrashWarrior the whole point is that none of these things can properly get off the ground until the schools are back properly.

So teachers are at least partly to blame, via their unions.

Schools have been making plans. Most of them had to totally remake them once the government instructions were given as they were at odds with what most schools thought were a sensible way forward.

Notgoingoutoday, I agree with most of thing you said. But it's not fair to say " I am also saddened at how many parents and children appear to find it hard to spend an extended length of time together. " That is not a point, is it? They may want to spend times together, but parents need to work, other things to do. Children enjoys times spent with parents, but they crave socialising with their peers/friends. It's a difficult time for everyone. I don't think those who want the school to open want it to open just because they don't want to spend length of times together. I am very torn. I want school to open in safe environment, but not if risking anyone's health.

@FrippEnos

How about you take your issues with my posts up with me directly, rather than challenge another poster?

I apologise for having missed the apology. But the trouble is, the apology doesn't actually remove it. People read it, and comments like that set a tone that is (obviously) proving hard to move away from for lots of posters.

Nike - thank you for answering my question. I'd suggest that the first and last paragraphs are contradictory.

I've worked on behalf of unions (solicitor). In my experience the Government (any government) often works well with unions behind their scenes - the spin then applied in the media often represents the media owners views (and their chequered history) and need for political point scoring rather than an accurate description of relationships - whether you've based your views on the media or not I think many reading these threads have been persuaded by years of negative headlines.

It broadly benefits central government to have issues/changes discussed at a national level - and it means that practical issues which may not have been considered at a planning stage can be deconstructed in a helpful manner. Management consultants will have a limited knowledge of how things actually function on the ground. See classroom planning.

No, there are plenty of workers with older or no children. Why are these places not open? Because of SD.

So teachers are at least partly to blame, via their unions

Again, not the unions. You've said, why do the unions spout forth at every announcement? Well clearly if they do, they don't agree with what's been set. If they had been involved, they wouldn't be complaining.

Also, a fair number of teachers on the clinically vulnerable groups are self risk assessing and going in. I've seen many posts in other groups around this question.

And yet it's still not enough due to govt guidance.

NikeDeLaSwoosh

Why would I waste my time when you believe that you are entirely right and others are already arguing the points that I would make?

Is there a reason that I shouldn't arguing the point with your supporter?
Surely they should be able to argue their reasons for supporting you?

napqueen thank you for the thoughtful and illumina Post.

Okay, I'll bite again, NikeDeLaSwoosh – what exactly have teachers, via their unions, done (or not done) that we should be blaming them for? Because as I see it, it's the LEAs like Liverpool City Council that have banned schools from operating at all in their areas and those schools in other areas that are now operating to limited capacity are doing so according to the Govt and SAGE instructions that only R, 1 and 6 can go back presently, with 10 and 12 having some face to face time before the summer. Instructions that were drawn up with no consultation with those unions and teachers. So what blame should we be laying at their feet?

Illuminating, of course!