Schools fubared till November?

[Clemmieandareallybigbunfight]

Disruption to schools could continue to November, MPs told www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-52895640

Is this a dystopian joke?

Are we actually trying to fuck up our kids?

Schools need to be instructed to open fully five days a week with enhanced on day cleaning, increased buses to allow distancing, staggered start and finish, covered but open refuge areas allowing distancing whilst outside in all weathers for breaks and no assemblies. Relatively low investment needed, huge gain economically but more importantly for our kids education and mental health. Some of these kids will never get back to school if they are out for so long. Some will fail to achieve their potential. And all for an illness with a tiny mortality rate overall?

Mummypig2020, you sound very immature. Those who slip through the net will slip through the net even the school is open. Being back to normal regardless of circumstances doesn't solve anything. As for your child, she hasn't even started yet. How can she have such a negative impact by school aren't open yet. It's your job to keep your children feeling positive about school. Everyone is in a same boat.

More personal comments.

Everyone is not in the same boat. Anyone who had read a single newspaper on any day during this period would know this. Safeguarding referrals are down by an enormous percentage because schools are the primary referral point for safeguarding concerns. You think those kids' parents/wider circle have stopped abusing them? Dream on

Nike do you have an ongoing issue with ANY union - or just teaching unions?

Some of the employment rights that the unions have secured (maternity pay/Holiday rights etc) are generally positive.

That said, they unquestionably stand in the way of progress, even if technological advancement results in better safety outcomes (as they tend to remove human error).

At some point, we need to accept that people are going to be replaced with machines and old school jobs will be lost.

So to answer the question, I think unions often benefit an individual worker in an individual situation, but at a population level, they hinder progress and lead to inflexibility in the labour market.

Unfortunately many of those facts that you like so much are not facts.*

Always happy to be educated if I've got something wrong if you want to elaborate.

I agree.

@Piggywaspushed

nike because the RW media report it?

If you watch the daily briefings, the interest of most journalist and even the public is educational issues is actually minimal.

I'm sorry, I'm not sure what you mean?

snowballer

It is the poster that you are cheer-leading that is spouting opinion as facts.

Ok so challenge the statements you disagree with directly rather than sidestepping to me for a dig.

Why do we hear their objections to pretty much every government proposal at every turn?
That's their job to advocate for their members? No one is taking much notice of them.

We are following the government guidelines where possible. LEAs have stepped in, not unions.

You need to take this one up with tbe government. And as a pp said, that meeting was a government meeting.

They say we might need to be prepared for this to carry on till Nov.

The only way it will change is when the government say so.

Can I just address the constant comparison of nurses and teachers as a nurse who is now a teacher (albeit HE so I won’t pretend to understand the difficulties at primary and secondary schools).

Nurses do NOT all go into the job because they are angels are are geared up to put their lives on the line at any moment. It’s a stable job, working with people, doing good and in the past was accessible to those who had families or later in life (RIP bursaries and no fees...) The decision to work in ‘high risk’ areas previously was just that- a choice. A job on infectious diseases, ITU, A&E etc (although relatively the risk has always been low).

This situation as we all know is unprecedented. Friends and colleagues are being redeployed from dermatology outpatients, sexual health, ophthalmology theatres to be ITU nurses all of a sudden. There is usually a 6 month induction period with support and a qualification until you have patients alone. PPE is available obviously but not 100% effective and not always the ideal supplies. These people did NOT sign up to be on the front line putting their own and families lives at risk when they took a normal nursing job years ago but as part of every hospital contract it states we have to be willing to be redeployed.

And actually for the most part everyone has got on with it. Even those high risk (not shielding e.g older BAME asthmatic) or with young children or family with health issues. It’s not ideal it’s not ‘fair’ it’s not what they signed up for but that’s life at the moment- it’s risky. And they can’t not do it as people need them.

So I hope you don’t mind me lacking sympathy for teachers who are essentially in that same situation and are just saying NO NO NO (I 100% appreciate not all are). Life isn’t safe but kids need you like patients need nurses at the moment. You can put measures into place to be as safe as possible but unless we want the world to stop we just have to do it. The stakes are too high for young people.

@snowballer

Bold quote fail - reposting to avoid confusion

Teacher hate on this site is disgusting and ignorant

I doubt anyone "hates" teachers. Rather like Keir Starmer remarked to Boris in PMQs today - you're confusing scrutiny and questioning with attacks. The difficulty is when people voluntarily take personal

public sector teachers seem, to a (wo)man, to be lazy, grasping and having the interests of the children in their care right at the bottom their priorities

This doesn't feel like scrutiny and questioning. It feels like an attack.

Why is teaching the only profession ever discussed when it comes to the risks of “returning to normal”?

What about dentists, cabin crew, hairdressers, bar staff? To name a few.

OK sure the government aren’t forcing them back to work but I’m pretty sure their mortgage companies are.

like you OP I am really annoyed not just with the government but also with our (primary) school which seems to have no intention of opening to anyone other than key worker kids. They say they have too many staff shielding, ok fair enough and I am sympathetic but is it really ok for staff to be paid yet shielding indefinitely when it means that a whole class can't go back to school?

snowballer

I'm pointing out to you that the facts that you are supporting are not facts.

Unless the rules have changed this is allowed.

snow, I am not saying it's ok. I am just saying that the fact school is open won't solve every thing, especially limited numbers and lots of restrictions. Those who are known to be vulnerable are already offered the place anyway, as I understand. With unfamiliar teachers and limited number of children under social distancing, I just don't think it will be a solution for everyone.

I am shocked at the number of selfish and entitled people there are on here. I am also saddened at how many parents and children appear to find it hard to spend an extended length of time together.

In my opinion primary children will not suffer educationally if they don't go to school. They will catch up in time. I personally missed two years of school due to ill health and had no home schooling during that time. It just meant I had to work a bit harder to catch up as I was behind all my peers. In this crisis, all the children are missing the same lessons so they can all catch up together so it will be so much easier for them. So they may miss out on a few ancilliary subjects as extra time is given to English and maths, but I'm sure their teachers will work hard to ensure that by the time they leave school they will not be disadvantaged.

Older children can choose how hard they work during their time out of school and need to take some responsibility for their own education in these difficult times. Those that do will find themselves at a huge advantage when it comes to higher education as they will be well-prepared for independent learning. Those that don't may be disadvantaged, but there is no excuse as there is a huge array of resources widely available online and offline. I am a secondary teacher and I enjoy teaching motivated children - I don't enjoy forcing children to work, crowd control or being abused. If your child is not motivated then please don't blame the teachers who are try their best to educate your difficult child.

For the few vulnerable children that are most likely to suffer, schools are open.

Yes shielding teachers need to shield. The rest are no more at risk than anyone else of that age group*

So no diabetic, asthmatic, obese, BAME teachers, then? Not one? No older teachers over the age of 50? No teachers at all in rooms using recycled air for heating known to carry the virus around? No teachers in rooms without windows or rooms with no windows that open? No teachers having to have close contact with children who might spit or cough? No concerns about risk assessments and what a teacher might reasonably be expected to do to help or support a child?

It feels like an attack

Yes, I made that comment, and then subsequently retracted it with an apology as I agree that it was not in the spirit of the debate.

I do stand by the gist of the point, but I should have made it in a more measured way.

Its interesting that you have chosen not to quote my retraction and apology though, isn't it?

I am shocked at the number of selfish and entitled people there are on here. I am also saddened at how many parents and children appear to find it hard to spend an extended length of time together

It's not selfish and entitled to be worried about your child's mental health and education.

I'm disappointed in the lack of response and reassurance about education from our government. I can't honestly imagine how difficult it is for schools and teachers right now and I can't fault my son's school in terms of setting work and being available for help and support. Schools face an undoubtedly difficult task and seem to be, for the most part, left to their own devices.
I work for a council and our director of health decided we didn't meet all 5 points to enable us to safely allow more pupils back this week. He's now reviewing that again next week.
At the start of this, Boris and chums were working on a 3 week basis and reviewing at the end, what's happened to this?
Where is the focus on education other than the 3 year groups going back and possibly the idea of year 10 going back at some point? No mention of other year groups, it's like they don't exist. My son is 13 and should be making his options in Year 9 in September, I'm worried about what he's missing and how he is supposed to make an informed choice about his future!
I know we're still.in baby steps yet and by no means out of the other side, decisions can't be made overnight but I'm so so disappointed in the lack of thought and support for our kids.
On the plus side the annoying memes and posts on social media that were so popular in March and April seem.to have died. I got so fed up of seeing posts about parents refusing to homeschool and how it's more important they make memories and relax during this lockdown. "Hey don't worry if you didn't complete all that work today, you kept your child safe and that's more important". I'm working from home and I'm honestly spending more time printing off work and making timetables so that my lazy son will actually do some work. He'd be on his PS4 all day otherwise! It's hard work but he has loads to do and his education is important - even if he doesn't give a toss!
I think people are starting to see the long term effects this is going to cause.

It is money, plain and simple. If the government were prepared to throw money at this, like they did the NHS to allow them to adapt, then schools could and would embrace the challenge.

I agree with this. It's completely wrong to accuse parents ( we are not a uniform mass either..) of not knowing about funding cuts to schools and the effect it has on staff morale and the education of our kids. Many of us have been fighting against this for years. I have a kid with some SEN and for whoever said that those children would be getting extra support- not really no! And he hasn't handed in every piece of work (most but not all) getting him to do the minimum is an uphill struggle and he doesn't always understand what he is supposed to be doing. Yes I email teachers and I don't always understand either- my schooling was pretty hit and miss tbh.
I am well aware that individual teachers are not making the decisions, and that the government are making it up as they go along, but I think what is getting my back up is the attitude of teachers that I know in RL that it is just so dangerous for teachers to even think about returning to work, when for so many of them it's really not- no more than Asda workers, taxi drivers or nurses.
Shit, I have been supermarket shopping week in week out for multitudes, and I tick a couple of higher risk boxes but I just had to get on with it.
I know the government have said no to p/t school for all years (why??) and there's limited space in lots of schools but not in all schools, if they were part time, and not all children are in primary, older kids can be trusted to be more sensible.
It's so not even about the education from my perspective, it's the months of restrictions, including not being able to hug your nan or go into a shop with your mum, or get on a bus to the cinema with your mate, or play sports, or just hang out outside. All of these things have an effect on older children when it goes on for months and months.
It would be good to lobby the government thru the Summer to throw some money at helping schools put in the infrastructure they need in readiness for September so they can stop paying people to stay home (which has got to be more expensive!)

Fallen - you're right. That wasn't my comment but agreed that's over the line. That kind of comment is in the minority though. I think it's reasonable to scrutinise union actions to the extent they affect the quality of (or any provision of) the education children get.

No older teachers over the age of 50?

Being over 50 isn't a huge risk factor.

@snowballer

Fallen - you're right. That wasn't my comment but agreed that's over the line. That kind of comment is in the minority though. I think it's reasonable to scrutinise union actions to the extent they affect the quality of (or any provision of) the education children get.

Yes, it was my comment, I have addressed this at 22:03 13

nike the papers splashing styf about unions in their headlines are almost exclusively right wing media : Daily Mail , chiefly bit also The Times. Few other papers have shown interest or focused education reporting on the union angle.

In the last 15 briefings, 6 journalist questions have been directly about schools. The Ed Sec has done a grand total of 2 briefings.

This vilification of unions is very much channelled through a traditional anti union agenda and not something most people share as a concern.

It would be good to lobby the government thru the Summer to throw some money at helping schools put in the infrastructure they need in readiness for September so they can stop paying people to stay home (which has got to be more expensive!)

Why haven't the schools asked for more money to do this? Or have they? I asked this earlier.

The furlough scheme isn't there just to help provide childcare. Plenty of people without children are furloughed.