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Schools fubared till November?

999 replies

Clemmieandareallybigbunfight · 03/06/2020 15:41

Disruption to schools could continue to November, MPs told www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-52895640

Is this a dystopian joke?

Are we actually trying to fuck up our kids?

Schools need to be instructed to open fully five days a week with enhanced on day cleaning, increased buses to allow distancing, staggered start and finish, covered but open refuge areas allowing distancing whilst outside in all weathers for breaks and no assemblies. Relatively low investment needed, huge gain economically but more importantly for our kids education and mental health. Some of these kids will never get back to school if they are out for so long. Some will fail to achieve their potential. And all for an illness with a tiny mortality rate overall?

OP posts:
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MissLLM · 03/06/2020 18:15

If anyone thinks teachers do not care about children and want what is best for them I suggest you take that up with your individual school and raise a complaint because that is not what I am hearing, reading or experiencing at all! Our number 1 priority is all kids AND their family's safety, not whether the parents can work or whether you are able to make them work at home. Yes some schools can be crap and some teachers can be crap but let's be clear, the government are running this shit show and it is them you need to be focussing your energy on, not us!

It is not schools that are doing this to our children, it is the government. We are doing as the government has asked. Instead of asking why schools cant create bubbles of 30, ask the GOVERNMENT because we are just doing as we have been instructed despite a lot of schools not having the space or funding to do so safely. School grounds have been sold off over the years to private owners so that rules out using the outdoor space in some schools.

To the PP who asked whether it was because of unions that we are not asking for extra funding... just wow! I wish every single one of you complaining about schools had cared this much about schools and education before the virus. Schools have been massively underfunded throughout this Tory government and we have complained and fought for extra funding but clearly that was just teachers moaning. A lot of children weren't getting the education and support they deserved before the virus because TA and LSA positions have been cut and if you take a look at how the funding for outside special needs and mental health agencies have been cut, you would be sickened. But that's all teachers fault isnt it! We just didnt care enough or do enough to fight this centralised defunding and destination of services and our education system!

I would implore those of you complaining about schools to research the underfunding in closer detail rather than bitching about schools. Even bitching about teachers because we are powerless and governed by our head teachers rule. Not saying I dont agree with my head but its laughable that some of you think us lowly teachers have power to sway decisions made by senior leadership or the government!

Yes I want to be back in school (teaching from home still as not in a year group that has gone back) but do I want it to be safe for the children, the staff and everyones families! Absolutely! Safety is THE priority and the fact that you think children missing 8 weeks of education ( yes, that's right, 8 weeks because of the holidays we have had!) Is the most important thing right now, then I despair of this country and people who think like that.by the time the holidays come it will 14 weeks of learning that children will have missed in school. In the grand scheme of life that is nothing. A lot WILL have been learning at home, although mumsnet seems to be some magical place where all the children go to shit schools where the teachers do nothing, so maybe your kids wont have been. Private schools have longer holidays, a lot will have been off for 2 weeks at half term maybe even a week extra at easter so let's say they have been off for 7 weeks now. Some wont even go back at all now as their long holidays start and others will be breaking up soon so will be stopping home learning. So I'm not sure I understand how out kids are losing out to them more than usual!They have a shorter term and we have longer to catch our kids up. Our larger class sizes, shorter days and lack of funding and equipment already outs our state system kids at a disadvantage but I dont hear anyone complaining normally! They also make up a small percentage of the children in this country so surely if most people are disadvantaged meaning it wont make a bit of a difference in how your childrens futures will pan out? Oh wait, I forgot, state schools arent doing enough! Teachers are crap! All the state teachers fault!

Children are resilient and will be fine. Yes some have mental health issues and other needs but do you really think school, in the current situation and how the government is dictating it should be run, is the best place for these vulnerable children! We are not childcare. I know it is hard to work from home with kids but this isnt forever and instead of wasting time bitching on here maybe spend time supporting your children with their mental health. That's what the teachers will be doing with far less resources and with a far bigger ratio of kids to deal with. Come up with some more practical solutions to actually help your school and these lazy work shy teachers you speak of. Find out about other facilities that can be used and propose these to the schools. Actually, dont! The schools cannot control this! Propose this to our feckless government who couldnt give a crap about our kids and their education and welfare, but do care about the economy over the lives of people.

I also suggest you read the guidance the government has given for schools to return just the initial 3 year groups. Give yourself a few hours though as there are a lot of documents that have been published, amended, contradicted and then rewritten, all in the few weeks since the government announced the return to school. School leaders have made plans then amended over and over, all with the childrens best interests at heart and no consideration of this from the government. www.gov.uk/government/collections/coronavirus-covid-19-guidance-for-schools-and-other-educational-settings

There is a list on the .gov website if those considered clinically extremely vulnerable. They are not allowed back to work as it is not considered safe. The individuals haven't decided this, the government has. There is also a list of clinically vulnerable. This includes pregnant women which as we know, teaching attracts a lot of women of childbearing age so will affect how many staff are able to work. This is because we are not choosing to not go in, or cant be bothered, we have been instructed by the government (i hope you're noticing a pattern here!) To go to work ONLY if we can stay 2 metres distance from others. For office staff this could be possible depending on the setting. Teachers? No. And if you do think this is possible the you've clearly not worked in a school or want your children to receive the best care and support we can given as this is not possible from that distance. I am working from home and setting daily learning amongst other admin jobs I would usually spend hours of my own time doing outside of teaching. I have offered to take on extra admin but some of you dont seem to realise that a lot of this is personalised to classes and children and as I dont teach those classes, would be near on impossible for anyone to do other than that specific teacher who is in work teaching! I dont want to be off work. I'm not shielding but I cannot go in. I've asked for advice on when I can return but no guidance had been given, nor has it been given to those who need to shield and they should not have to risk their lives just because your precious little darlings arent coping at home, or should I say, you're not coping!?

We are doing what we can. Most are doing more than their best. Write to your MP, complain on social media to the government but can we leave teachers out of it as a general profession!? Complajn about individuals to your individual school of you feel you have a case, that's fine. But Its getting tiring and I'm not surprised teachers have been leaving in drives. To the PP who suggested there are lots of qualified teachers out there because of teacher retention... you really think they will come back to the shambles of an education system that the government has almost destroyed, especially in this climate with all the teacher bashing and not the slightest regard for our safety and wellbeing, let alone the children's!?

If any of this came across as parent bashing, I am sorry, it wasnt meant to be. My class have wonderful parents who email me queries or great work the kids have done and i feedback as soon as i can and love knowing how the kids are doing. I miss the children and miss chatting to the parents about their children. I know so many are doing all they can and are still struggling and i am supporting those parents the best that i can within my school's and government parameters. For those that are doing their best, I really do admire you but for those who bitch on here about teachers when they clearly haven't a clue what happens in schools or what is happening right now in these very different and challenging times, I have no sympathy. A little compassion goes a long way and you clearly have none of it which will affect how compassionate your kids will grow up to be. Be cruel to their teachers? Expect to be those posters on mumsnet in a few years complaining about the behaviour of your adult children towards you.

I have missed a lot of apostrophe. My phone is terrible to type on. I'm too angry to go back and read what I wrote and edit but I stand by everything I have said. Well done fellow teachers you are doing a brilliant job.

Piggywaspushed · 03/06/2020 18:16

To call a whole profession (the second largest in the country) lazy and grasping is offensive , yes.

And to suggest, we don't understand the needs of children. Don't know where to begin with that.

NikeDeLaSwoosh · 03/06/2020 18:16

@Piggywaspushed

It's very difficult to support people who care much more about themselves than the children they are supposed to care for.

Compare/contrast the average NHS nurse, actually risking their lives for others.

snowballer · 03/06/2020 18:16

The problem with this insane situation is it's led people to believe that every single person should be protected at all costs from ever contracting covid which leads people to be "offended" by Nike's factual statement.

highmarkingsnowbile · 03/06/2020 18:18

We've spent a fortune on extra tutoring for our son for his trigonometry and calculus. Silly us, should have just told him to YouTube or Google and teach himself. I mean, you know, why bother hiring people with qualifications when all along you could have just taught them yourself or they could have taught themselves. Hmm

TheFallenMadonna · 03/06/2020 18:19

I would point out that the SAGE guidance was puublished, which suggested a limited reopening (and I'm not aware that there is any teaching union representation on SAGE).

I would also point out again that similarly affected countries (Italy and Spain) have not reopened schools, and that other countries which have reopened have also do so in a limited way, as we are doing.

Piggywaspushed · 03/06/2020 18:19

Teachers don't actually sign a contract that say they are frontline health workers , you know. We have no medical training, no training in public health. We don't sign up to work with infection.

I have never had a post deleted so choose instead to step back from arguing with someone who thinks I don't care about children.

Shallwedancetomojito · 03/06/2020 18:19

Welcome to 2020

Hospitality - Fucked
Retail - Fucked
Schools - terrified
Self employed - Fucked
Hospitals - demoralized and exhausted
Young people (all our DC) - Fucked
Old people - hiding
Government - LIARS
Billionaires - Untouched and getting richer
Brexit - Looming
United Kingdom 🇬🇧- Fucked

snowballer · 03/06/2020 18:20

Apologies, I made an assumption people were offended by Nike's post about the 80% who've died being over life expectancy. I don't agree with the teaching stuff. But only because I can only go on personal experience and teachers at my kids' school have been very can do about all this

NeverTwerkNaked · 03/06/2020 18:21

Exactly snowballer. A big part of the problem is people don't seem to distinguish between sheilding (to protect a vulnerable individual) and lockdown (to protect the NHS).
Most people of working age have a very negligible risk of getting seriously ill and are more likely to die on the car journey to/from school. So histrionics about sending teachers to their deaths is just irrational.

I know people working in all sorts of jobs and not getting dramatic about needing to do them.

And the unions didn't help things by (for a long time) blocking suggestions of proper live teaching as a viable alternative. all other professions have found ways to deliver "business as usual" remotely or are still heading into work.

Barbie222 · 03/06/2020 18:21

Nike's "factual statement" that people over 85 with Covid should already have had the old heave ho because they're over the average life expectancy?

No, that's eugenics and I'm calling it out. At this time especially. Lives matter.

Piggywaspushed · 03/06/2020 18:21

nope, my timing was off by one post snowballer. I thought that was crass, but have read that many times on MN.

Delatron · 03/06/2020 18:22

Italy and Spain haven’t reopened because their schools break up inJune anyway....

They are relaxing many measures over there. And doing well...

memberof5 · 03/06/2020 18:22

I agree completely op. Everything is so reactive instead of thinking around the issues and putting in place appropriate measures. Fortunately my children are 12 and under but if I had a year 10 child I would be tearing my hair out. Lots and lots of children receiving a totally inadequate education.

Private nurseries will be back - no one will care about their shielding staff. All teachers can't stay out of the classroom to protect the shielding minority. But I suspect it will need to be mandated by government.

I have one child In reception. He has been offered 2 days a week from July. I know of other schools that have just said they cant provide an education on site. Children aren't really going back to school now. Yet shops and public spaces are really really busy.

pfrench · 03/06/2020 18:23

@MissLLM - bravo.

To the PP who suggested there are lots of qualified teachers out there because of teacher retention... you really think they will come back to the shambles of an education system that the government has almost destroyed, especially in this climate with all the teacher bashing and not the slightest regard for our safety and wellbeing, let alone the children's!?

Teachers will be looking to get out of this if they possibly can. Literally no one who is qualified and not working right now, will want to come back. Might be a few supply teachers around. That's your lot.

It's very difficult to support people who care much more about themselves than the children they are supposed to care for.

I care more about my family and myself than I do about other people's children. Caring about them first, is not my job.

PickleSarnie · 03/06/2020 18:23

What a shame that the majority of parents seem to regard this bonus time they have to spend with their children as an "inconvenience".

Seriously? I don't know where to start with that comment. I have a full time, pretty stressful job to try and hold down. My husband has the same. I don't have the time to do lovely things with the kids. I really wish I did. I see everyone on social media having a whale of a time and doing all sorts of lovely crafts and 'lessons' whilst I am on the verge of tears every single day because I feel like I'm failing them and on the verge of dropping the ball at work whilst I try to juggle it all (along with husband - it's not just me attempting to juggle)

memberof5 · 03/06/2020 18:24

Spot on sirsamuel.

Delatron · 03/06/2020 18:24

And one last time before I get again get in to another school argument.

The aim was never to stop everyone getting this virus. It was so the NHS can cope. With this aim do you think schools will remain closed to most year groups for another 4 months or more as some propose while the hospitals are coping fine? It think. It and I doubt the government does too....

NikeDeLaSwoosh · 03/06/2020 18:25

Fair enough, I was more robust than I needed to be to make my point.

I'm just absolutely furious that teachers always seem be wanting more from the public purse, when so many other public sector workers are stoically going about their business, despite being actual risk other lives.

It's particularly galling when they try to dress it up as 'keeping DC safe' when the facts just don't support this.

Why do teachers think they are special cases?

Delatron · 03/06/2020 18:25

I don’t think so not it think it!

TheFallenMadonna · 03/06/2020 18:25

Fair enough. But my point stands that where schools are reopening, they are doing so in a limited way. As are we. And that there is more to a limited reopening than the concerns of the NEU.

Piggywaspushed · 03/06/2020 18:25

I have tow DC. If DS1 is fucked that's because he is lazy and doesn't engage with online teaching, which is not the magic bullet.

DS2 is definitely not fucked.

I am sure many children are but there are multiple reasons for this; many already were and, yes, I think this makes things worse for some of them but police, social care, CAMHS, parents etc all have a role to play in this. Anne Longfield frustrates me because she has given up pointing out the chronic underfunding of these child services and so it feels like schools need to fully (and more) function to heal all of society's ills.

Good parenting is the single most important factor in a child's development and even in their educational progress. And I am sure most of you are good parents, hence your agonies of concern.

highmarkingsnowbile · 03/06/2020 18:25

Children are resilient and will be fine.

It's amazing then, why so many adults end up with really fucked up lives because of what happened in their childhood. Guess they just weren't resilient enough.

Yes some have mental health issues and other needs but do you really think school, in the current situation and how the government is dictating it should be run, is the best place for these vulnerable children! We are not childcare.

No.fucking.clue.about.a) secondary school level pupils and b) secondary level pupils with additional needs such as dyslexia, high-functioning autism and ADHD.

It's NOT about childcare at that level, it's about their education that their parents are unable to provide at home because they are not qualified to do so.

EVERY single one of these threads both here and otherwise is always, always focused on primary level pupils and how schools are not childcare, nary a peep about how secondary level pupils, particularly those in exam years are being thrown under a bus.

pfrench · 03/06/2020 18:25

Compare/contrast the average NHS nurse, actually risking their lives for others.

Yeah, that's what they trained for. And they have PPE. And it's what they trained for. AND THE FUCKING PPE.

LockdownLou · 03/06/2020 18:26

@Piggywaspushed we had an email to say that all staff in my children’s school (state) will be in masks, as the HT is allowing it.

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