No space at school

[PinkDiamond1]

This is outing so have NC.

Our school is a large primary 3 form per year.

They've offered alternate weeks starting from the 8th June for year groups.

We were undecided on sending our DC back.

However we got an email yesterday saying they were at full capacity for key worker and Nursery R, Y1 and Y6 and can't accept anymore children!

Is this allowed?

solomummy - it's guidance, the responsibility to provide education lies with the LA not the school. If the school are unable to accommodate you and you tried to take legal action I suspect that you would simply be offered a place elsewhere or some kind of learning hub. During the pandemic the legal obligations on schools and local authorities have been lessened significantly for obvious reasons. No doubt there will be some entitled parents or lawyers who go down this route therefore diverting a load of time and resources from education professionals who are trying to make a 10 pint drink fit into a 1 pint pot!

Don’t forget @Howaboutanewname the head teachers need to knock up an extension in a weekend so there’s physically enough space to have the children in.

However we got an email yesterday saying they were at full capacity for key worker and Nursery R, Y1 and Y6 and can't accept anymore children!

Of course it is allowed, if they don't have the physical space and number of staff what do you expect them to do? They need double the rooms and double the staff and that doesn't come from thin air.

wonder about the legality of them refusing to accept children in the permitted year groups.
The Governmnet has said it is not compulsory because they know ait will be impossible for a lot of schools

SoloMummy

I wonder about the legality of them refusing to accept children in the permitted year groups.

Key worker and vulnerable get priority, then anyone else they can fit in. Going off the guidelines of course they can refuse children from the permitted groups if they are full.

They should have stated it was important to say yes if we were undecided then.

Did you think they sent the questionnaire for shits an giggles?

If they are full they are full. Parents changing their minds right now is literally the least helpful thing. I personally think if you make a decision then that's on you. My DDs school have made it clear you are in or not and there isn't to be constant changing of minds.

Schools are expected to make good put of cow pat right now and nothing is a must do 🤷‍♀️

You are being unreasonable you said no. The school planned to those numbers. If you had said yes they would have had an opportunity to plan to include your children.

Yes, schools should follow the guidance and if that means head teachers should magic up new staff

Or, use the teachers who’s classes aren’t returning yet.

@mondaywine head teachers have had months now to be knocking up extensions. They should have known they would need more space and sorted it out. And paid for it out of their own pockets. Ridiculous.

I agree there is nothing outing about the OP's post so have they name-changed or are they 'a new poster'? (Am I just suspicious about everything since reading a thread the other day about MN employees writing posts to increase responses and therefore advertising revenue?)

Or, use the teachers who’s classes aren’t returning yet

I am sure most schools are doing this. However, in a one form entry with 2 staff off pregnant and another shielding, things start to get difficult....

I wonder about the legality of them refusing to accept children in the permitted year groups.

Legality becomes irrelevant when you have to work with what’s physical possible... they may as well say ‘legally’ you need to grow a pair of wings and fly to school every morning. It can’t happen. Accommodating all the children who are technically entitled to a place is just as I’m plausible.

They could of done more than that @Howaboutanewname, they should have got rid of the playground as it's pointless to have all that wasted space when you could fit two classrooms on it. The staffroom can go, so can the school car park - they are all luxuries that aren't needed.

Surely it was obvious that they wouldn't be able to take every single child if there are more than one class per year group. And you said no 🤷🏼‍♀️ Our school said saying no at the time would mean you'd have to wait and see if a place became available if they open to more year groups at a later date.

Ah there’s always one.

Of course it’s ‘allowed’, even if you said yes your children weren’t guaranteed a place.

Look at the bigger picture and stop being so self absorbed.

Astonishing! Don't people realise that if schools have to socially distance, they can't accept all the children? It's hardly rocket science to see that is it and it's hardly as if it hasn't been plastered across every type of media for weeks!

They asked what you wanted to do. They didn't need to say to you 'and please realise that when you answer, we will take that as your answer' - that's usually how Qs and As work isn't it! So if you say 'no' and later change your mind, not surprisingly, you won't be top of the list. Along with everyone else you had a choice to answer the Q and accept a place.

They cannot just magic up provision. That should be obvious too. There are X amount of rooms and X amount if adults. So when people change their mind a few days before it all starts, extra provision isn't possible. Lots of year groups aren't being offered any returns because there isn't space to do it in a socially distanced way. Schools will contingents provide for them remotely....and for your child too.

Honestly, blaming school communication, declaring they are failing to meet their obligations and that you are entitled to a place.....what a load of rubbish. You need to appreciate 2 things here - there simply isn't space for everyone and it's not possible to change that, plus you actually did have a chance and turned it down.

I think you're actually cross with yourself....because unlike lots of year groups, your child did have a place offered, and you yourself said 'no' to it. And now you realise you've missed the boat, but rather than just accept you probably made a misjudgement, you want someone to blame.

Well no-ones a winner really during this Covid phase and all children are losing out. That's not anyone's fault. There have been small elements of choice for some parents and you were one of those and exercised your choice, so now you have to live with it. How on earth could a system with limited places work if everyone was asked for their choice but could change their mind right up until the event itself? Clearly that was never goi g to be workable, but if you couldn't see that and want to blame the school and tell your children it's the schools fault, I expect you'd do that regardless of circumstances anyway.

This is one of the stupidest complaints I've ever seen on here.
You were asked and refused. Only someone hard of thinking wouldn't understand that they have to work around the numbers they have confirmed and there is a capacity based on distancing guidelines!
As a teacher who has prepared classrooms according to government 'guidance' (what a joke that is ) we can only fit 6-9 children per room, depending on the size of the room. We either dismiss distancing and risk serious repercussions or we follow the rules and have limited numbers. We cannot pull more rooms and staff out of our arse! Why is this so difficult to understand?!
If the government told us to open normally and have everyone back as though nothing has happened then we would do so.
Complain to them about this shitshow not schools!

The school sent out a survey to find out how many parents were planning to send in children in the relevant year groups. They will have done their planning based on those numbers. If lots of people said “no” they may have been able to offer places to year 6. If they are now full, and people who said “no” now want to send in their younger children, they would have to totally re-plan and potentially withdraw the places for year 6 children, who are lower on the priority list with one working day’s notice. That would be patently ridiculous. If you thought you might want the place you should have said “yes”. By saying “no” you told them not to plan for your child needing a place. Of course they haven’t done anything illegal.

Or, use the teachers who’s classes aren’t returning yet

When you split classes you need this teachers. Half classes means double teachers. This is difficult enough without also factoring in shielding staff who have to stay at home. Before someone suggests using teaching assistants, thanks to funding cuts these are few and far between in most schools now.

You said No.

So your children weren't factored into their planning.

That's on you, not the school.

It was fairly obvious that if you said your child wouldn't be returning to school, then they would not plan to make a space for that child?

You can't just change your mind and expect the school to be constantly reviewing and amending their plans, especially if resources are stretched.

@PinkDiamond1

They should have stated it was important to say yes if we were undecided then.

They didn't say it was first come first served - neither did they say the spaces were limited etc

Using your common sense is permitted.

FGS they have limited resources (rooms & staff) to provide childcare for people. Key workers/vulnerable children first then there's going to have to be some kind of selection process if more people want a space than they have spaces. Once they've taken the children they 'have' to, then the children they feel need it the most they're going to have to choose from the others and parents who committed early are obviously going to be the ones they prioritise

You obviously have other options if you weren't prepared to commit earlier

It's not the schools fault there's a bloody virus or that the Govt didn't bloody listen.

Besides, I think if you have the option your children are still better off at home. School is going to be very different and for a lot of children it will not be better for their MH than being at home.

This is one of the stupidest complaints I've ever seen on here.

I agree with this. The OP basically boils down to

School asked if my child was returning
I said no
Now i'm mad because there isn't a place for my child who I don't want to send to school

"They should have stated it was important to say yes if we were undecided then."
Did you say no or did you contact them and discuss your indecision?

"They didn't say it was first come first served - neither did they say the spaces were limited etc"
We all knew there would be social distancing. It doesn't take a brilliant mathematician to work out the implications of that.

"Typically it's poor comms on their part"
Don't blame the school staff. This is your fault.