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Antibody testing thread 2

491 replies

Egghead68 · 24/05/2020 20:22

Thread for people thinking about, doing, or awaiting results of COVID-19 antibody tests.

OP posts:
Egghead68 · 11/06/2020 15:42

@Utini it took 2 weeks for my official Blue Horizon report although they told me it was negative when I chased after 6 days. Hope yours is quicker.

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Utini · 11/06/2020 16:00

@Egghead68 oh wow, thanks for the warning! How long ago did you get yours done?

Hoping that the labs might be geared up to a higher volume now! Maybe also the lack of finger prick home kits might help, they may have had a drop off in number of requests?

Bit impatient, I've been wanting to know for so long!

onlinelinda · 11/06/2020 17:01

Thank you @egghead68 . A really informative way to spend 30 minutes. What dodgy wheezes these companies-including Abbott and Roche-get away with! But worse that PHE didn't point that out.

WonderTweek · 11/06/2020 17:26

I finally got my results! The Royal Mail tracker stopped tracking so I lost all hope, but the lab actually rang me and told me that they did receive my sample and that I should get my results within an hour. I just got the email and it was a negative. I knew it would be but I'm slightly disappointed as it would have been great to have had the virus so it would be out of the way (for a bit anyway). But it's certainly good to know! I'm just pleased that I got my results and didn't waste my money on lost tests. Grin

I would recommend the services of the London Medical Lab. Their customer service has been excellent and they have promptly sent me a new kit when I needed it, and they have been professional and pleasant to deal with.

Now I'm wondering what I should do with the unused test kit I have. I must have pressed the submit button on their website too many times as I got a few in the post. Blush

Egghead68 · 11/06/2020 17:38

Matt Hancock just said in the daily press briefing that 70-80% of people with positive IgG tests have had no symptoms.

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Tanfastic · 11/06/2020 22:43

Got my result today....negative. My colleague who was convinced she'd had it...also negative. NHS employees.

Egghead68 · 11/06/2020 22:52

@utini 20 May.

@onlinelinda glad you found it informative!

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Egghead68 · 11/06/2020 22:55

This article talks about 70-80% of people with positive IgG tests being asymptomatic:
www.itv.com/news/2020-06-11/coronavirus-study-finds-as-many-as-80-of-positive-cases-do-not-show-symptoms/

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Derbygerbil · 12/06/2020 05:51

The latest antibody study from Bergamo is particularly significant i believe to our understanding of Covid. Tests between late April and early June of a representative sample of the population showed 57% had antibodies.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.dw.com/en/coronavirus-tests-show-half-of-people-in-italys-bergamo-have-antibodies/a-53739727

This is very significant for a number of reasons:

A) Assuming antibodies provide protection, Bergamo was trending towards herd immunity, though given the severity of the Italian lockdown, it seems highly unlikely that it actually achieved it. Without intervention, as many will be infected in the “way down” and on the “way up” and, even with a high R, it would take a few weeks on the way down to approach herd immunity. As there wasn’t a delay of weeks between Bergamo reaching crisis point and lockdown occurring, there is very likely to be a gap between the number actually infected, and the higher number who would have been infected had the outbreak been allowed to peter out naturally. This indicates two important things:

I) the herd immunity percentage likely to be closer to 80% - possibly even higher - than the 60% figure that was mooted in the early days
ii) natural immunity that is able to fight off infection without antibody production is less prevalent than had been hoped, perhaps very low. This doesn’t mean necessarily that many people don’t have decent natural or t-cell protection that could fight off low infectious doses of Covid, but that this wouldn’t necessarily be enough to provide solid immunity alone in an uncontrolled and unmitigated outbreak with high quantities of virus circulating.

B) Bergamo is the probably only place that Covid has “ripped through“ without any intervention. For the poor people of Bergamo, they have provided probably the only case study of the effects of Covid spread across a pristine population without any intervention (whether imposed or population-led) until the majority had been infected. It is therefore the only place where a reliable like-with-like IFR/CFR comparison with flu can be made. In all other places, interventions occurred before, generally well before, this point, having a significant impact on the infection’s trajectory.

A similar study was done with the result published in late April.... Given the time taken to do the study, improved test reliability, and the time for antibodies to appear, it’s not surprising that there’s been a leap from the 35% figure back then.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.euronews.com/amp/2020/04/28/coronavirus-more-than-a-third-of-people-in-italy-s-covid-19-epicentre-estimated-to-have-ha

This paper published that 6,000 of Bergamo’s 1.1m had died with Covid at that point. I’ve read that Italy’s Covid death toll could be significantly understated (Ie 6,000 could be too low) but I won’t get into that here and now. Although I couldn’t find any more recent data for Bergamo, Italy’s reported deaths have increased from 27,000 to 34,000 since the date of that article, an increase of
26%. Taking the conservative assumption that deaths in Bergamo would have risen by half this amount (as it was the start of the epidemic in Italy and therefore would have been ahead of the death curve), I’ve estimated Bergamo’s Covid deaths at 6,800... This is 0.62% of the population and would
be the low bound figure for IFR/CFR (assuming they are the same for the purposes of this), with this rising to 0.87% if 80% infections are required for herd immunity.

Apply that to the UK, and you get 582,000 deaths in a no intervention scenario... Round down a bit to take account for Italy having a slightly higher age profile than the UK, and, his personal hypocrisy aside, Prof. Ferguson’s 510,000 estimated reasonable worst case scenario looks pretty good and has stood the test of time!

Egghead68 · 12/06/2020 12:30

Very interesting - thank you @Derbygerbil

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corpsebrid3 · 12/06/2020 12:54

Really interesting results from our family - the 4 of us (2 adults, 2 children) negative for IgM and IgG.

My 75 yr old DM who lives separately and has been shielding since March and only I deliver shopping was positive for IgG. She had the flu badly in December after international travel.

Egghead68 · 12/06/2020 12:58

@corpsebrid3 interesting. There seem to be increasing numbers of people with positive tests after being sick in December... I can’t remember where I read it now but there was a really interesting study where a hospital analysed old blood samples from before the time covid was supposedly in the country and found a proportion had antibodies. I think there might still be a question as to whether the antibodies arose from a Covid-19 infection or a similar coronavirus though.

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Utini · 12/06/2020 14:20

@Derbygerbil very interesting, thanks. Also suggests there can't be huge numbers of false negatives / people not producing antibodies, given such a high proportion of their population has tested positive.

Utini · 12/06/2020 14:24

For anyone who had the Blue Horizon test, do the laboratory email your directly, or do the results go back to Blue Horizon?

They say "The laboratory are typically emailing results now within 1 working day of sample receipt.". My sample was delivered this morning so it's possible it'll be processed today, but I'm wondering if I'll then be waiting until next week for Blue Horizon to action something.

Utini · 12/06/2020 14:51

Just had the results through - that was quick! Negative though. Shame, was hoping I'd had it.

Egghead68 · 12/06/2020 14:57

Very quick! Sorry about your result though.

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Egghead68 · 12/06/2020 15:00

57% for IgG still leaves plenty of room for 20% of positive cases to be missed (11-12%) if you go with the assumption that around 80% will be infected if the disease is allowed to run unchecked.

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Sweetnhappy1 · 12/06/2020 15:18

We've got access to the antibody tests at work now (GP Practice). I called the hospital lab to check, they are using Abbott. I was hoping it would be Roche.

A load of patients we saw with chest symptoms/fever etc in early March (no PPE) have had their antibodies checked and are positive. NONE of the doctors, nurses, HCAs and receptionists in our practice are positive. We saw them without PPE. None of us had severe symptoms but quite a few of us feel that we had mild symptoms.

I wonder if IgG drops off really quickly in mild disease or we don't mount an immunoglobulin response in the first place. I wonder which antibody tests they used in Bergamo, I don't think all the tests are equivalent. I know that there are studies going on in which patients with positive immunoglobulins are being serially tested to see if they stay positive or not, it'll be really interesting to see this shows. Most people I know who tested positive for antibodies with just mild symptoms had their mild symptoms later in April/May.

Egghead68 · 12/06/2020 15:30

Very interesting thanks @sweetnhappy1. So much to learn. Out of curiosity is it your impression that fever = positive antibody test and no fever does not?

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Oaksideboard · 12/06/2020 15:43

Regarding Abbott vs Roche tests, I think at the moment from the most recent Public Health Evaluation, Abbott are more accurate.

From here: www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-laboratory-evaluations-of-serological-assays

Abbott: update 8th June: 100% specificity, 92.7% sensitivity rising to 93.5% after 21 days (76 people in this last group)

Roche: update 11th June: 100% specificity, 83.9 sensitivity rising to 86.7% after 21 days (75 people in this last group)

Under the Abbott table, there is a disclaimer for the negative antibody test results from positive PCR that they had not been hospitalised for Covid-19 disease and most likely had a mild disease outcome.

Sweetnhappy1 · 12/06/2020 16:04

@Oaksideboard Oh how interesting, they got rid of the bit that showed that the Abbott test decreased sensitivity after 40 days and the Roche test increased sensitivity, perhaps that was inaccurate. The serial testing will be really really interesting. The ones with mild illness in May who have tested positive: it'll be so interesting to see if they still test positive in August.

@Egghead68 I'm not sure, it seems the ones who came to see us in March with good going fever or cough or sore throat or anosmia or gastroenteritis or muscle pains in some combination seem to have antibodies. At the time of seeing them we have always documented 'no recent travel' because travel and hospital admission were the only criteria on which we might have got testing. The ones with milder symptoms in March have no antibodies. The ones who had milder symptoms in April/May, some have antibodies and some not. We are in South London and these patients indicate to me that it was circulating freely in our community for a few weeks before lockdown.

Ernieshere · 12/06/2020 17:31

I dont know how true this is?

If you test negative for Covid-19 antibodies, it could mean that you have never been infected with Covid-19. But it could also mean that you were infected previously and produced antibodies but lost them over time, that you were infected and your immune system didn’t make antibodies or didn’t make enough to be detected, or that you are currently infected but your body hasn’t started to make antibodies yet

Wunderweb · 13/06/2020 11:54

Well, I’m really confused now. Why would blue horizon offer swab tests for £100+ when they are free?
The only antibody test now is venous, no finger prick ones any more.
I can’t get to London to a clinic for venous testing.

Wunderweb · 13/06/2020 11:56

And ‘private coronavirus tests’ are now phlebotomy only.
Where is the sense in restricting antibody tests?

Egghead68 · 13/06/2020 13:36

@Wunderweb the free tests are for NHS (and possibly care) staff only for now but will be rolled out to the wider population in time (supposedly). I guess they are building up capacity.

If you want a private one many private GP clinics will do a blood draw for you. You might have one local to you.

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