I think I was naive.

[Gatorgator]

In my head - when this started - twelve weeks was worst case scenario. I knew the virus wouldn’t go away obviously, but I thought after twelve weeks the nhs would be better prepared, we’d know more about the virus and there would be a degree of acceptance that we just have to live alongside it and know there’s an elevated risk. I’m in an at risk category so I’m not just dismissing this risk.
However instead it seems that we are going to live like this indefinitely. I didn’t think theatres, sporting events etc would be open for a long time, nor did I think the travel industry would pick back up, but I did think I’d be able to visit my elderly parents who live two miles down the road.

Now it seems like this is the new normal. All meetings are going to be virtual. We are having (unsuccessful) virtual play dates with other children. The few friends I’m still communicating with I’m mainly messaging but really - if I’m never seeing them again then what’s the point?

There are a couple of big Christmas things nearby that are annual events and they are cancelled. More and more I’m coming to realise that this is it. This is in fact the new normal everyone keeps talking about. Only seeing the people you live with and being terrified to even leave the house to collect something essential like a prescription.

However instead it seems that we are going to live like this indefinitely.

It doesn't have to be the case. They have reopened cinemas in Korea now and relaxed social distancing rules, because they have handled things well. China is getting over it and allowing travel from some places again. It hasn't taken off in Africa like experts feared, and many countries are getting over it.

The main places still struggling are the ones who made a dogs dinner of the whole thing - the President who thought injecting disinfectant would be a tremendous way to beat the virus, and the PM who couldn't wait to boast that he shook hands with hospitalized corona virus patients. And both places have populations who are used to finding loopholes and reasons why they are exceptions and shouldn't be expected to behave like everyone else. There are people on my local facebook pages complaining that they went to the beach with their family - only to find that many other people had also gone to the beach with their families! The cheek!

In the UK it really is down to the individual to accept that we are surrounded by incompetence and do the best we can to keep ourselves and loved ones safe.

I am very privileged to be healthy, still working, living with people I love and I have a small garden

Well there’s your answer.

“ refuse to take precautions against catching a dangerous virus is that what you mean, you want to throw caution to the wind?”

Depends what you mean by precautions.

As a PP said, get your voices heard, make sure politicians know we don’t want to live like this.

The terrible state of the world at the moment is the result of the naive people grossly overreacting to an inevitable part of life

This!.

If it hadn't been China, it could easily have been somewhere else. "Mers" was the "Middle Eastern Respiratory Syndrome" coronavirus, remember?

Of course everyone has to make difficult choices ravenmum. But is the alternative just that everything stays shut? They’re likely to lose their job anyway as the gym will just go under. And furlough won’t prevent that happening, as staff wages are a drop in the ocean compared to fixed costs like rent, utilities, insurance etc.

I'm so scared, well in fact terrified, about the future for my daughter whose nearly 5. What will it be like for her? No hugs from anyone except her parents, social distancing at school, all the kids playing alone inside a square box drawn with chalk in the playground, never being able to walk to school holding hands with her best friend who lives across the road, virtual 'play dates'. These things can all fuck off as far as I'm concerned. What a bleak, miserable, joyless, sterile existence. At least I, aged 44, have been able to enjoy life until now, with the 'old normal'. I'd cut off my right arm for her to have a childhood that was half as good as the one I had

Do people really think it will carry on long enough to be that affecting? My elder child is also 4. He still goes to nursery 3 days a week where there are no attempts at social distancing, which would be horrible if there were. His best friend who had to drop out when lockdown started can now come back on 1 June and will do so he can see him too. When he starts school in September it might be a bit strange for a while but measures of distancing will continue to be lifted carefully. They might ebb and flow as a PP said but this isn't forever or even really for that long.

I don't think my children are going to have that different a childhood to us. Just one that had a difficult and strange period of a few months in it.

Luckily for me I'm autistic and the lack of pressure to see people is actually helping my mental health.

I feel for others though.

I suppose the developed world could take steps to isolate /insulate itself more completely from developing countries where there is trade in wild animals?
What would that involve?
closing borders I suppose?
We also need to think about the dangers of emerging flu viruses from bird and pig populations in other countries.
Perhaps if more of the world was vegetarian? Proximity to other species is inherently risky for humans because of the possibility for transmission of diseases.

But is the alternative just that everything stays shut?
I'm very much in favour of it all opening up, as the sector I'm in will only recover after it does. I was disagreeing with your point that if people are scared, they can just stay at home. Most people can't. Society needs to help them, not say "Well just stay at home then".

I understand the feeling.

I live in Denmark (emigrated from the UK years ago) and I'm lucky that we're a few weeks ahead of the UK - but it's realistic that you'll follow the same course.

Things are still weird. There's no cinemas, parties etc. But the kids are back and yesterday we got the best message - they could play with their friends again. The restrictions are mainly on adults now.

The lockdown reduced the R rate. When the kids were sent back to school, the R rate continued to fall. All the evidence is that although kids can catch it, potentially fall ill from it, and spread it... it's not heppening. The virus is still active enough in the country that if they were going to cause a sudden surge in infection, it would have happened - they've been back in school, kindergarten etc. for over a month now.

There's a plan, a solid one, for opening everything else. With rules of course. Our malls are open but the shops all have 'in' and 'out' routes marked on the floor and maximum amounts allowed in at one. They're not allowed to advertise big sales that would cause a rush.

Things are going to open, the long term effect will be rules.

I think the WHO is being negative by necessity. If they focus on the optimistic developments there will be simply too many who see it as a sign to stop being careful. But if you focus on individual articles there are positive developments...

Remember, the virus is only one element of the solution.
Treatment is also an avenue. You probably can't 'cure' Covid, but if a treatment could save 95% of those who currently die? Game changer.
The research is focused heavily on understanding it too. A research team here has found that by giving each potential inpatient a heart scan, they can see with over 95% reliability if they can basically go home or will need a ventilator. They're testing it more to see if the accuracy holds, but they're very optimistic. That's in tiny Denmark - there's other research going on all over the world. All of these things will help. We'll get back there.

I think the UK government dragged their heels too much at the beginning. And I think that for Denmark, NZ, Norway - it's simply easier to being these things under control with a much smaller population, but every country with a lockdown will get there. But that just means you're a little behind on the recovery process, not that you won't get there (and trust me that in Denmark we saw plenty of people disobeying the lockdown - every country will be banking on some morons. Don't think that the UK owns them all :) )

Patience. It's not forever and it we are sensible now, most of the hardest elements, around family and friends and family or a view of the countryside , or a new job, will come back, many relatively soon

The OP mentioned the first 12 weeks, we are not through the first 12 weeks, we had less severe restrictions than many countries and there is already a movement o even fewer restrictions before the end of June when the 12 weeks should be up ( although i admit I have lost track of weeks and months as living is so bland )

OP: But because of technology and social media etc this is be first time the world has reacted in this way?

Yes, and hopefully that's why we have almost 300,000 deaths worldwide this time, unlike the Spanish flu which killed up to 50 million people. I know there'll be more deaths but hopefully communication and technology means fewer deaths by far. If we behave in the way people did in 1918, then we are all screwed!

It's not forever
Obviously we should be positive and hope for the best but no one has a crystal ball, I think we should also be prepared for worst-case scenarios.

@Mynydd I have actually adjusted pretty well to living life in lockdown, but I find it intolerable that my children are being denied their proper childhood: being able to see other children, going swimming etc etc. Simple pleasures that I do believe they deserve.

I think we should also be prepared for worst-case scenarios.
Is the worst-case scenario that we have to stay 2m away from people forever?
That's just not going to happen. There are already protests now. The next step would be riots.

If there is a second wave and a surge in deaths do you think people will be rioting Raven?

I think the thing that is depressing me is the fact that no one seems to have any idea how to exit lockdown and I think the government / advisors are making it up as they go along. I am appalled by the lack of rigour re some of the decision-making.

What damage is being caused long term to children's health and wellbeing if they aren't able to access normal routine health and screening appointments? I had no idea my DS needed glasses as he had no signs of a squint, didn't sit close to the telly, didn't get headaches BUT if this hadn't been picked up via screening followed by regular optician appointments every 3 months he would have had significant vision problems as an adult.

What's happened to 'we are following the science'? The science /evidence re fabric / homemade face masks is non-existent (there are lots of opinions/views but little in the way of science) but the gov is recommending these, I suspect to try and alleviate fears of ever going out again.

Schools opening? How is social distancing possible in already over-crowded schools? Is it fair / appropriate to ask primary age children to try and social distance? What mental health issues are children storing up for the future.

You can only meet one person of your family in the park respecting social distancing but you can go to work on busy tubes / trains / buses. What bit of this makes sense?

I could go on, but I won't because it makes me extremely annoyed

@nether thanks for your post. As someone who works, has DC and lives a pretty normal life but is in the shielding group, it’s nice to be remembered. There’s a definite misconception that most in the shielding group are old/ frail which is absolutely not the case. Boris’ vague reference to the isolating elderly on Sunday didn’t help. I think the govt need to give some serious thought to the shielding group and the guidance, especially in terms of the rest of your household. I’m dreading my DH being asked to go back to work (we’ve both worked at home throughout) on the basis that the shielding guidance says other members of the household don’t have to shield but you must then socially distance within the home. That is absolutely impossible with young DC. His employer will likely jump on the ‘rest of your household don’t need to shield’ point without realising that social distancing within it is impossible. I’m feeling quite lost about how to deal with it all. The massive sacrifice of shielding (and it really has been for all of us) would just be undone. I was very militant at the start of this that we all absolutely must stay in but after 2 months without going anywhere I’m slowly moving more towards the I might have to take my chances at some point as I just don’t think we’re all going to be able to keep staying in for months on end. I definitely would be thinking that if I wasn’t shielding. But then I feel guilty because I really am vulnerable (lung and kidney problems) and the impact would be huge on my DC if the worst happened to me. I have all my eggs in the vaccine basket, clearly, but I suspect I wouldn’t if my medical circumstances were different.

If there is a second wave and a surge in deaths do you think people will be rioting Raven?
Not in the UK, maybe, if people are more placid! But in the US they're already protesting. And here, the usual far-right idiots are complaining about their rights being trodden on, by Bill Gates or some such nonsense. I don't think most governments would be able to keep up such strict measures indefinitely.

Why is it such a miserable existence for you all though?

Because I have a 2 year old only child who can no longer attend nursery, play with and learn from her friends, swim, go to music classes, play in a playground or at soft play, or even go out to a shop or to feed the ducks without at least one person tutting and shaking their heads at seeing a child out in public - dangerous vector for the virus, you see.

Because I can’t even sit on a park bench to enjoy the sunshine as the local council have taped them all up.

Because DP is working full-time from home, (one of the 20% in his office not furloughed) I’m working part-time and we’re trying to maintain some level of routine, normality, learning and - god forbid! - fun for our toddler. This is relentless and exhausting when so many of the ‘normal’ toddler things are out of bounds - as the saying goes, ‘it takes a village to raise a child’ but we are all supposed to be sterile little islands at the moment. Last night DP finished work at 9, we ate at 10 and then went straight to bed. This is a typical day at the moment - no TV time, reading etc.

Because I can’t visit my elderly parents and give them a hug, even though they don’t want to live like this either and would rather take their chances with the virus.

Because I love swimming, travel, theatre and live music, and these have all vanished for the foreseeable future. I wanted to introduce DD into all of these things - we took a deliberate decision when she was born to raise her with ‘experiences’ rather than ‘stuff’ and now we’re panic-buying toys and frantically trying to come up with activities we can do in the confines of our home and tiny garden. Even with my experience as a trained primary teacher she is desperately bored and there’s no end in sight.

Because I hate the general atmosphere of mistrust, curtain twitching, disapproval and informing on neighbours that the virus and government messaging has brought about.

Because I can’t help thinking of all the people stuck indoors with illnesses and dental problems going untreated, violent partners or family members, neglectful or desperate parents, severe mental health problems that are being pushed under the carpet while this ‘new normal’ evolves.

I can come up with others if you’d like?

Only seeing the people you live with...

I'm by no means an extravert, but there are no "people I live with" and although I'm not aware of feeling particularly distressed or depressed I don't feel this is doing me - or anyone else in my situation - a lot of good.

Why is it such a miserable existence for you all though?

Because my DH industry has disappeared overnight so no idea when we'll have any income again, unlikely to be this year. Because we were just about to move country and now we're stuck. Because my family are a twelve hour flight away. Because I can't do the things that give my existence purpose any more.

Yes I have a nice house and garden and enough food and company, so as you say day to day is a bit blah but not terrible, but the bigger picture is horrific right now.

I'm not particularly scared of the virus itself.

At the beginning of March I told DH that I was going to wait a couple of weeks before booking flights to Spain for Easter and as a back up I had found a lovely place in Northumbria we could go instead
Now I dont think we will be going on holiday at all this year and we usually go 4 or 5 times.
Quite minor in the scheme of things but shows how I had no idea how serious the situation was