Unions blocking schools re-opening?

[Confusedbutheyho]

Just been off the phone to a friend who’s married to a teacher and they’re hearing a lot of conflicting news re unions.

Many are saying June won’t happen for re-opening. Is that possible that the unions veto it and stop it going ahead?

@Nomame99 we obviously haven't been reading the same posts because I haven't seen that at all and every single member of staff in my school are desperate to come back but need assurances it's going to be safe. It's the same for the large number of teachers I have on social media.

What I have seen is people saying they want to come back but it's not currently safe if it's a free for all. That's a fair point.

@BertNErnie I think teachers have come across on here in a bad light as it appears they have no team spirit for front line workers. We should stand together. Just because someone doesn’t agree with every single point doesn’t mean all parents are against teachers. This is the Government’s error and everybody is trying to do what’s best for their own situation. If teachers want to resign let them. If parents wants to send their kids back let them. Parents who don’t want to send their kids yet it’s their choice.

The crazy thing is, that this madness is going to go on through September and possibly longer.

We aren’t anticipating a full school come September. We are planning for half classes, split days or alternate weeks, class sizes of ten and no movement around the school for pupils - teachers will go to classes.
Things are not normal now and won’t be ‘normal’ for a long time. It’s something we are going to have to accept and get used to.
It’s devastating, no doubt about that. I have a child in year 10 and I’m crush at what’s ahead for him as far as his GCSES being concerned.
Kids are resilient though and we’ll get through this eventually. But, I think the unions are an irrelevant point...I just don’t think any meaningful schooling is going to happen anyway this year.

Cherry: if teachers want to resign let them.

Heads are already saying they don’t have enough staff to have double the amount of classes. Parents won’t be sending their kids in if their aren’t safe levels of staffing as the school won’t open.

I’m another who has seen retail workers having social distancing enforced and measures like screens in place, contactless payment etc.

Also retail workers can’t work from home and food is essential. Children of non essential workers, the furloughed can work from home. Teachers can fulfill their job of educating from home. Schools have stayed open prioritising the children of keyworkers and vulnerable young people. Those kids are the priority as they cannot be cared for at home. Currently nurses and supermarket workers etc can be assured that their children are being safely taken care of whilst they’re at work.

Bringing in 3 more year groups will take away that assurance as we’ll no longer be able to keep their children safe. Because we’ll be crowded with the children of non essential workers, the furloughed, people wfh and the unemployed. How is that fair or reasonable?

We are providing education for all and childcare for those who have to work away from home. It’s a pandemic. A minimum of 50,000 people more than the average over 5 years for the same period.

Keyworkers are able to work because their children can be safely looked after by other key workers. It’s incredibly selfish imo for people to risk those workers children because they’re determined their kids should go back even though they aren’t essential workers or are working from home.

Firstly I’m not against you at all. If they don’t have enough staff why are you panicking? The chances are schools won’t go back in June a way of I was a teacher I’d hang fire before shouting down on everybody as though they are the energy!
Do you know nurses personally that have told you that? Assured in what way we are working with COVID patients and having to do things I cannot write on here. I know what we are in. I do think you need to calm down. You can resign, you can isolate. Nobody is forcing you to go back tomorrow. However it’s ones choice what they want to do...... people do need to pay bills also!! Keep a roof over our children’s heads.

Why was lockdown created????

Right now the most important job is a hospital job if you fall ill it won’t be a school you need! It will be hospital facilities I can assure you if the thought of returning to school has got you this anxious you definitely couldn’t do my role!!! Nurses do not have it better than teachers.... if a child takes poorly on the spot it won’t be you that sees the process out till the end will it???
I don’t see nurses kicking up a fuss the way teachers are right now. Yes you have some valid points it is the government at fault ultimately

That’s the way life goes it is unfair I agree. It’s not your business and it’s not mine. I personally feel it’s selfish of you & some others I see you as frontline as other members in essential roles.

Demanding screens like SOME supermarkets have what on earth is that going to do in a classroom are you going to move your screen round from child to child? Of course not. Nobody is too thrilled about risking their life right now. If you think others have it so easy go and get a job in Aldi or give your job up and go on benefits.

If you think others have it so easy go and get a job in Aldi

They have screens in Aldi. And in every supermarket I've been in.

I don’t see nurses kicking up a fuss the way teachers are right now

Teachers did not sign up for the job of nurses. Apples. Oranges.

Welcome to MN, Cherrybakewell

Just because healthcare workers have had a bad deal for ppe does not mean everyone else should go ahead with risky policies.

I imagine teachers have to do a million risk assessments for school trips etc. Why do any less for corona? Furthermore govt should take even more care because outbreaks in schools can spread quickly to impact the wider population. Doing pilot schemes with good Infection surveillance (ie People with symptoms have numbers to ring and places to get tests done and clear advice to follow) is very sensible.

Additional restrictions are necessary IF you wish to limit morbidity and mortality. We already have laws mandating isolation for infectious TB cases - so this is not without precedent.

Every employee has a legal right to withdraw from any place where they are at serious and imminent risk to their health and safety. (Section 44 employment rights act 1996).

If that risk is present in schools and cannot be reasonably controlled then teachers should not return to work.

This is the basis of the unions’ advice to teachers.

NC for this as I suspect we might be the only ones. I am a teacher in a large college group (6 FE colleges) and yesterday, we had a CEO update that we too would be reopening on 1st June. All students would be 'invited' in (although we arent expecting many to come). The day would be split into 2 sessions with one ending at 1230 and the next starting at 1330. Teachers are to clean the classroom between the sessions and students will only come in for one or the other. Due to the nature of colleges we have a vast majority of students that come in by public transport and some staff. We don't have enough parking for staff as it is so many staff also take public transport or have to use the cities park and ride scheme.

There is going to be a massive backlash against teachers if the unions are not careful. At the moment teachers have a large proportion of public on side. A large number of Parents don’t want to send their children back. As furlough ends, redundancies loom, people will turn - they always do. If people are hurting in their own life they look to someone else to blame.

There will be questions about paying teacher full salaries if schools are closed (or only open for keyworkers) - particularly if their friend’s school down the road is open. What’s the point paying for lots of teachers to provide home schooling when parents could just use one centralised online provider? How about allowing parents to take a child’s budget and use it in the private sector?

If lots of teachers are made redundant in the long run - the unions won’t have served their members well.

I'd happily go back tomorrow (TA) if it was for children of Year 3 upwards who are more able to follow safety rules and social distancing. I've been in school for key worker children and extra staff were coming in to set up classrooms for re-opening. We all assumed it would be for, what we consider to be 'safe' age groups. Our Head Teacher (shit hot on health and safety, and very keen to re-open) only discovered it was the youngest year groups off the TV. We were all shocked that it was Nursery, Reception and Year 1, and that has set off massive alarm bells and fear amongst staff and school parents. Up till then, we were pretty much ready to welcome the children back, and gutted that we are having to question everything and possibly hold off on re-opening. I've no idea what the rationale behind that decision was. If anyone can give me a good reason, I would love to hear it.

Teachers are nowhere near as militant as the press makes them out to be. If they were, there would have been strike after strike over working conditions and the pressure of the ever changing expectations.

However, to be a teacher you have to care about children. You wouldn’t put up with the pay and workload otherwise (yes there are long holidays, but I’m reality only the summer isn’t used for a work related purpose). They also tend to be quite fond of their own families, so I expect that they might get a bit wound up about this issue.

FWIW I’m a primary teacher, desperate to get back to some kind of normality because teaching eight year olds from home with a toddler present is not sustainable. I can see it working with the Year 6s, but copping reception and Year 1 children up in one small room all day with limited resources is going to be a distaster, and not worth it in a health risk vs educational/social benefit way.

strawberry this is not a question of industrial action, which would in any event be unlawful. Unions are simply advising teachers of the safety risk - just as our government is ‘guided by the science’.

Individual teachers can make their minds up, as they no doubt will.

@StrawberryBlondeStar - I agree with this:

**What’s the point paying for lots of teachers to provide home schooling when parents could just use one centralised online provider?

Unfortunately if online schooling becomes the norm even partially in the longer term they may look to centralise aspects of it.

Well clearly teachers can’t refuse to return to work until there is a vaccine And their buildings and class numbers are not going to change to make their working environment social distancing friendly so are they in stalemate?

Personally all the teachers that I know are having a whale of a time at home with their kids on full pay that is not a luxury that’s been afforded to other key workers or anyone else who is having to continue working from home whilst also looking after their children.

I don't believe schools will open in June. I personally quite like the teachers at my DDs school and refuse to put them at risk and hope they won't be bullied into returning.

Yes it's hard and children are struggling, but if it's not safe to return for children or teachers then they should not be going back so early.

Unions are there to protect employees and if that means saying it's not safe to go back in June then they need to be listened to.

My friend in Germany is a teacher whose school is opening today to Year 12s only (17-18 year olds). They will have no more than 15 per classroom. Classes will stop every 20 minutes for hand washing. The school has put in place a one-way system to prevent students passing each other in the corridor. My friend expects that most of the Year 12s will be pretty sensible, a lot won’t come in and that there won’t be much educating going on. The school is planning on approximately one-two weeks for each year group between now and the summer holidays (10 weeks time). My friend is most worried about the 14-15 year olds who she thinks are least likely to follow the new rules and stay distanced.

Cannot imagine trying to get 5-6 year olds to do the same.

I should have said this is after there have been no new CV cases in my friend’s (smallish) city for weeks and cases never got high.

Could we stop with the teacher bashing. It is vile. No other profession gets such a kicking on here.

Teachers are just pointing out that the government plan involves no safety systems for anyone involved.

Have any of you actually read the guidelines? No PPE, no social distancing, all in full time within weeks.

There will be additional deaths because of this policy.

I don't understand why people are so upset about teachers getting paid? Every one of these threads has people coming on questioning why or commenting on teachers getting paid. No one ever gets upset about any other profession.
Why do people get so upset with teachers? We're not in charge here, we didn't close schools. Our union has been working with government, alongside many other unions no doubt.

Anyway I'm off to work, in my school, so that frontline workers can do their jobs..

The smaller classes will be facilitated by school becoming part-time. Children will end up either in school a couple of days per week or doing one week on, one week off.

I’m in a secondary. We are planning for every year group except year 13 to be part time in September. The timetable will revert to full time when the government says social distancing is no longer required. We will open for year 10 and 12 before the Summer but it won’t be for normal lessons. I forget the exact wording but the guidance says something like “face to face contact to supplement their online learning”. We will staff it with volunteers and SLT and it has been made very clear in emails to staff that nobody will be forced to come in until September.

I’m also the Head of Sixth Form. I’ll most likely put something in place for year 12 on UCAS and study skills. It will just be nice to see some of them in person.

It’s incredibly selfish imo for people to risk those workers children because they’re determined their kids should go back even though they aren’t essential workers or are working from home.

I am selfish for wanting my kids to get an education. I am selfish because my poor wee reception boy hasn't coped at all well with the schools being closed and I think for his mental health he will be better off at school.

Jog on! I feel sympathy at for teachers. I really do and I don't know the best solution.

But then I see comments like this and it makes me so cross.

Its absolutely clear that children do not count. Children are the least important of anyone in this country.

School closures are not to protect the children. They could reopen the school exactly as it was, primary schools especially and children would be fine.

And Test 4 - how will that work? You close school every time a child has a temperature? They will never be open?

Schools open on September - what will be different? What happens if infection rates are higher.

I would think that as long as schools are not open, we all have to socially distance. Especially over the summer holidays.

As a population we need to start thinking about the kids. And schools being open is important for kids. So surely that will mean we have to make many sacrifices. And seeing family surely has to be one of them? As soon as we start seeing family, infection rates go up and we can't open schools.