Unions blocking schools re-opening?

[Confusedbutheyho]

Just been off the phone to a friend who’s married to a teacher and they’re hearing a lot of conflicting news re unions.

Many are saying June won’t happen for re-opening. Is that possible that the unions veto it and stop it going ahead?

It’s the head teachers union that you want to be looking at.

Absolutely this.

Too soon for whole schools by 22nd

www.tes.com/news/coronavirus-revealed-least-26-teachers-have-died-covid-19

metro.co.uk/2020/05/12/new-york-now-has-100-children-suffering-deadly-covid-19-related-kawasaki-disease-12693774/

Eggbread without wishing in any way to minimise the dreadful impact of covid-19 on the UK, my understanding is that yes we have had a high death rate but taking those fatalities as a percentage of the population we are at the very bottom end of the scale.

Interesting that the proposed start date is the day after the resignation deadline. Teachers can't wait and see how this plays out before deciding whether to resign or not - they will be in a seven month notice period taking them right into winter and the highest risk period.

*once? Our deaths per million of population is high compared to most.other countries. Not the highest but pretty far up there.

onceuponatime our deaths as a % of the population are the 4th highest in the world at the moment (excluding the micro states of San Marino and Andorra). I’m not sure that counts as the very bottom of the scale, unless it’s a very selective scale.

I would be very disappointed if schools didn't open.

Carers, construction, NHS, retail etc have all worked through. Carers don't have PPE either and are very much in the frontline. Why is it OK for carers to risk their lives, families lives etc but not teachers? Why do their lives matter more?

Education is as important to some children as care is to the elderly. They need to get schools open.

We’ve had over 50,000 excess deaths since March. Pretty high whichever way you want to look at it.
Would have been many more multiples of that without the restrictions. It will rise further as they’re lifted, as it is in other countries opening up ahead of us.

It was much more dangerous before schools closed and there hasn't been any mass cases linked to schools that I'm aware of? We live in a hotspot, I know teachers at a number of schools in the area and no one has heard of any cases at all.

The R. number is falling, if it continues to fall then it should hopefully be safer than March.

A point about R.

R can be rising and there be less cases than if its falling.

It can be R3 but only 300 have it.

You then close and the R reduces and eventually then starts to fall below 1.

But during the period you were shut if there was sustained infection above 1 for long enough you could still, several weeks later when the R was below 1, have more than the 300 cases at the point of lockdown.

Thus the R falling does not necessarily indicate that less people have the disease.

The risk of catching the disease is a combination of the risk of exposure through lack of distancing, hygiene etc but also about the number of people who are carrying it.

You can have a higher R value but still be at less risk than a low r value if the number of people carrying the disease is higher.

This is why the government requires sustained drop in the R because its ultimately about the number of people infected as much as the R itself.

And the R can vary hugely in very small areas. Hotspots can be missed without proper contact tracing. Which we do not have.

Schools therefore act as a barometer for locating hotspots in the absence of proper tracing ability. And that's really not a fair way to identify areas where there is a problem still.

So my point is that don't use the R alone as a way of understanding the risk. It's not enough.

In my area currently there are 333 covid cases per 100,000 people. In Germany, they have eased lockdown including some schools reopening BUT they reimpose lockdown locally if cases go above 50 per 100,000 people. That’s the point they consider to be too risky. We have far too many cases currently to think that opening schools can be done safely. The government probably know this and are happy for teachers and the unions to take the flack for pushing back rather than admitting this.

Wow Frouby so you’re saying teachers and school staff should willingly put themselves at risk, ignore increasing info on deaths and risks, ignore health and safety?

All work places are going to be subjected to health and safety rules re CV and subsequent visits if requested by staff( and in this case one presumes parents). Schools should put up and shut up instead of saying they don’t have the facilities to follow guidelines and are worried about the practicalities of keeping tiny children and themselves?

At the end of the day if it all goes horribly wrong, who will be made accountable? Yes the schools with zero PPE; buildings that have been overcrowded for years; a lack of outdoor space and levels of staffing greatly reduced to years of underfunding.

My children's schools have been brilliant in providing support and work.
I do worry for all the children and staff, when the schools say it is safe then I'll listen to them not the government.

I don’t post very often but threads like this wind me up and, at the moment, there are about 5 teacher bashing threads a day. I am a secondary teacher and I would go back tomorrow.

1. Why are people asking why teachers are still being paid? Most if not all should be setting work daily for their classes. If this isn’t happening you need to contact the school. I work my normal hours every day (albeit with more breaks than I would usually get. I use these for training) and still get emails at 5, 6 7pm. I answer them with no complaint. Contact your school.

1. Schools going back fully - which they are hoping to do by the end of June for primary schools - means there isn’t any social distancing. Would we be happy to call of social distancing? No, of course not. Because it would put our key workers at risk. Teachers are just asking for some consideration about that, not hazmat suits.

1. They have opened the schools to benefit the economy ONLY. Not children, as the students who would benefit the most from contact time now are year tens and twelves who have exams next year and would actually be able to social distance. My niece is in reception and I know the first thing she will do is hug her friend. Times that by 20 odd.

1. Okay so children aren’t great vectors for the virus. That’s brilliant. However, how can I or any other teacher be sure we haven’t picked the virus up on our weekly shop? Very likely for me as I am in my twenties and have no underlying conditions. I could then pass the virus on to the maybe 300 students I would see that day and 10 staff. This I’m alright Jack attitude is what pushes the R rate up anyway.

It was lovely having a week of parents being grateful for us, glad to see the kicking has increased again. Please don’t compare jobs to others. Most teachers I know would of course give any PPE to nurses and doctors before accepting it themselves. But when schools can barely facilitate enough hand washing stations, all teachers want it a minute of bloody consideration.

One presumes Sweden has fewer cramped and crumbling old school buildings, fewer school fields sold off. You can’t compare countries. How big is the population in Scandinavia, what do they invest into education, how much green space do they have, what are their school buildings and facilities like?

Sorry, should say very likely for me to be a symptomatic.

If teachers do go on strike they will not get any sympathy at all. It would be an insane move

They would have my full support.

Why do people keep citing Sweden? They really haven’t covered themselves in glory either, much higher rates than fairly comparable Scandinavian countries.

If teachers do go on strike they will not get any sympathy at all. It would be an insane move

No sympathy at all? From anyone?

Amazing that you can speak for the whole population.

I don’t want sympathy anyway, I want schools to open when it’s safer and I want the unions 5 criteria to be met. I expect they will happen, to be honest. My head is now refusing to open currently and the NAHT appears to agree.

I would listen to thousands of heads saying it’s not safe, rather than Boris saying ‘Come, now-I’m sure it’ll be just fine’

I completely sympathise.

I remember DD primary school really well, they would have enough classrooms for reception, year 1 and 6 in groups of 15, but only if they don’t have any other groups like key workers children. Also they have enough separate entrances. But where they will get these extra teachers and TAs to staff these smaller groups ? Where’s do they get cleaners? What about pencils, pens, books, rulers, toys, etc children are using at school?
Don’t tell me about other European schools. Danes opened big secondary for a limited amount of groups. It’s different, it’s like putting village primary into big secondary.

DD is at secondary now, she has 1:1 in lessons. How on earth her TAs will keep 2 meters distance from her???
Also because of her learning disability DD can’t be so alert (as per government’s advice) as her NT peers, she needs constant supervision and reminding and sometimes even physical help. It will make her school day extremely stressful and will raise her anxiety. It will be difficult task for the staff so I don’t blame them for worrying and raising all these questions.
I had the same concerns before lockdown and actually planned to take DD out of school from 23 March, because of my estimation of local situation. We are not in London and were a bit quieter in comparison to others. Also we personally stopped using public transport and taking her shopping much earlier then lockdown. So no, I’m not in hurry to put her back to school with current situation and completely understand all the concerns teachers unions are raising.

Ok, so it really won't be sustainable for most parents to be able to work for another 4 months without any childcare. Many are at breaking point. And economically it is a disaster - also for those kids educationally if their parents are trying to work and don't have time to home educate.

So, for those who don't want schools to go back yet, would you accept that schools and nurseries should open so far as possible for small groups of children - say, up to 8 children per adult kept separate from other small groups so far as possible ONLY for those with under 8 year olds with two working parents (on their working days) or deprived children?

Those small groups could then go through school worksheets set by the school - at the moment, my key worker friends' children do not get any assistance with their work at school from the same teachers who set that work. They are civil servants working until the early hours every night on the government's coronavirus response and are having that same teacher who set the work call them to ask why they haven't uploaded their daughter's phonics work. They pick their kids up at 5.30 - are they supposed to cram this work in between 5.30 and bedtime? You really couldn't make it up. Some teachers just don't have any empathy for parents - I understand that some parents don't have enough empathy for teachers either by the way.

There is a reason why those who work in education have tried their hardest to keep their kids away, because they know it’s not safe. That should tell you enough.

Our schools are so rundown and understaffed, teacher redundancies are a thing you know. Many schools do not even have the luxury of TA’s. Where are all the classrooms and staff coming from to halve our classes? We have one of the most over crowded education systems in the world. Where is it all going to come from? No where because it just isn’t possible. The government know this. It’s why we didn’t have a proper lock down, we don’t have the police nor the military after their redundancies a few years back. Everything is cut to the bone.

It is not school, the reality is your child we be sat at a desk with what ever support staff they can ship in, whilst washing their hands every twenty minutes. That’s if any staff can get key worker places, as with all those years going back and many entitled to key worker places, schools will not have room for all.

People saying they want their children to have an education, really need to understand there will not be any educating going on, it’s child minding with whoever they can get DBS checked in time. People really have no idea and it shows. So people need to stop being so ignorant and listen to what people are saying before shouting off, when they literally don’t have a clue.

So, for those who don't want schools to go back yet, would you accept that schools and nurseries should open so far as possible for small groups of children-say, up to 8 children per adult kept separate from other small groups so far as possible ONLY for those with under 8 year olds with two working parents (on their working days) or deprived children?

Yes, I would do this.

The furlough scheme has been extended until the end of October. I believe we’ll be seeing disruption in who can return to school at least until then. The government know that getting all children back quickly is a pipe dream.

There is going to be a massive backlash against teachers if the unions are not careful.

So? I don’t care. They’ll still all send their kids to me when the opportunity arises.

Schools are already open for small groups so there's no issue with us continuing to do this so parents and carers can work.

Also, I'm working from home whilst attempting to teach my own children and so far today they have been educated by the television as I've been in meetings and working since 7:30am. Will they get any school work done today? Maybe/maybe not. Is it ideal? No but currently I'm on work time so my work comes first.

Better go, I have a growing to do list and my 10 min break away from the computer us up.