What a surprise "wear face coverings"

[BruceAndNosh]

As above

Any shop that makes it mandatory is asking for a disability discrimination case. The science behind masks is no where near robust enough to be a defence to a policy that disproportionately effects those with certain disabilities. Many disabled people cannot wear masks, both for physical and sensory reasons. People with respiratory conditions have been advised specifically not to wear a covering due to the difficulties they cause in breathing for such people and many with conditions such as autism and claustrophobia won't be able to tolerate the feeling of a mask against their face (including plenty who live independently and have jobs).

Thanks Chloemol. I don't have a cotton scarf sadly and my black woolly one will just drop down I think.

I will have to buy some of the ones linked to upthread. Even if you had a cotton scarf, you have to wash it every time you go out anyway so you would need more than one if you were going to work and need to wear them indoors.

Thanks for the Etsy links PP.

2. Why make it advice? Make it a requirement for going into public buildings.

Totally agree. Where my brother lives no mask, no entry into shops. It’s on it going to be effective if everyone wears them so why the hell can other countries make it a requirement but Johnson won’t ?

Face masks are going to be the accessory of the summer. I live in Paris where more and more people have been wearing them and now they are compulsory on public transport. There are some fab designs, people are coordinating them with their outfits - it feels a bit weird to wear one at first, but pretty soon it feels weird (and slightly anti-social) not to wear one. I feel much happier in the supermarket for instance because it sends a signal to others around you that you are taking care and is a visual reminder of an invisible virus. I don't believe face masks alone are the answer or that they are infallible, but they are another precautionary step that everyone can take.

Well certainly the more people who do it, the better

This. If one person "breaks the chain", then less people are infected.

@StatisticalSense I totally understand what you are saying there, but I suspect that even if it just remains as government guidance, shops will be able to state that it is a "proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim" and therefore discrimination cases would not stand up.

They don’t work. But wear one if it makes you feel better......

I don't think anyone has linked yet to Trisha Greenhalgh's findings on face coverings.

They don’t work. But wear one if it makes you feel better......

I used to think this. And then someone linked an actual scientific study here that proved they do work somewhat- obviously not as much as surgical/medical ones. But they do have an effect. Will have to hunt and see if I can find the study.

Don't buy them, make them.

Can't I just wrap a thin cotton scarf around my face if I have to? I'm not cutting up any perfectly good clothes and don't own a needle and thread so won't be making them.

To be honest I'd rather avoid the shops than wear a mask.

I can sew and have made some masks anticipating this but my DH refuses to wear them.

What he will wear is a bandana tied cowboy style, so I bought a pack of 12 for £8.99 on eBay.

My 5 yr old is also happier with a bandana than a mask, even though I diligently made her a couple of child size Olson masks from unicorn fabric

All the YouTube videos show people sewing masks out of ditsy floral material, usually accompanied by a really bad Country song on the soundtrack.
Mine are boring cream percale cotton, accompanied by Radio 4

Tip for glasses-wearers if this becomes mandatory - nose wires will keep the mask on your nose and below your glasses, preventing hot moist air from being exhaled up around the lenses. It's the mask overlapping the bottom of your specs that causes them to steam up.

It'd be pretty hard for a private business to argue that a blanket requirement to do something that is impossible for many disabled people, and is specifically advised against for a reasonable number, for which there is little in the way of scientific evidence was proportionate.

Well certainly the more people who do it, the better.

Sure, but when you look at how facors like this and social distancing affect transmission using a individualised SIR model the effectiveness drops massively when even a relatively small proportion don't do it. If take up is only 50% it is likely to have very little effect on the curve- which is really the main point.

Masks are not tremendously effective on their own, but they seem to be working well in places like China and Singapore where high compliance with a range of measures (coupled with tons of teting and contact tracing) is enabling them to function fairly normally.

If fact they do more harm than good, people wearing them think they are safe and take more risks.

If they worked there would be be som many NHS staff with the disease or worse having died from it.

@jobhunter7
the problem is that there are no studies showing that face coverings have actually contributed to a lower death rate/less transmission. The lower death rates in other countries may be because of a range of other factors - better testing, more prompt treatment, people with less risk factors, fewer people over 80 or in care homes - whatever

I have read a v small study that showed that cloth face coverings were ineffective and had virus droplets on the outside of them very quickly (wish I could find it now).

So hope this doesn't become compulsory. For a start, theres little medical evidence they do anything. People wearing masks feel complacent and take risks. Also they remind me of hospitals and I dont fancy feeling like a surgeon while doing my shopping. Madness.

@NamesNamesSoManyNames

www.fast.ai/2020/04/20/skeptics-masks/#mightnt-people-handle-their-masks-wrong-and-make-things-worse

This one?

Rumboogie "Using face coverings is idiotic advice IMO"
Okay we're standing face to face on the tube and I'm about to cough/sneeze. Would you still angry if my face were covered?

Most of us had to make our own or wear bandannas in US about a month ago. Yes, it is recommended in places where social distancing isn't possible, but for us that does include the supermarket! And our supermarkets are not that busy anymore.
Several states will allow business to refuse the right to let you in if you are not wearing one.
I hate them, but I will wear one when I shop.
I will not wear one outside. Nor will I send my children to school with one. I will also not ask my caseload of children to wear one. It would make my job (speech therapy) impossible.

jobhunter7, it wasn't that one, but thank you!

I haven't read the whole thread but does anyone else see the irony of Johnson recommending face coverings? Won't we all end up looking like letterboxes?

I've made my own btw.

I wonder how many people shouting for mandatory face masks also complain about Muslim women wearing the full face vail? Do they no longer care if they can see people's faces then?

And what about deaf people and hearing impaired? It's hard enough navigating the hearing world when you can lip read, what are you supposed to do once everyone covers their mouth.

The scientific evidence is not strong enough to mandate mask wearing, and some doctors and scientists have even said they can do more harm then good.

Article in the guardian
www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/04/scientists-disagree-over-face-masks-effect-on-covid-19