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2pm update?

112 replies

rosecreakybex · 11/05/2020 14:05

Have I imagined that we were getting clarification on everything at 2pm today?

OP posts:
Chanel05 · 11/05/2020 15:53

It'd suggest to me that by mid-June all primary pupils will be in school, not that they will be running into the usual summer holidays. Government have already said that schools will not be open over summer.

StrawberryJam200 · 11/05/2020 15:54

@meow1989 the bubble idea? It's mentioned as a possibility but not yet.

Somerville · 11/05/2020 15:55

"We call on employers to be reasonable if parents can't work as their children can't go to school."

Oh well, that's alright then Mr Johnson. Hmm

sunglasses123 · 11/05/2020 15:55

I also understand that 83% of people DONT use public transport to get to work. That sounds high but it was mentioned in the Telegraph.

Fortyfifty · 11/05/2020 15:56

Nothing about driving lessons or driving tests or did I miss it? I imagine it will come under the same risk category as salons but a shame it wasn't mentioned. I wonder if practicing driving with a parent is still not permitted.

Our other household issue is dd2 needing to see her orthodontist? Was there any mention of dentists? I'm reading on my phone so can't do a ctrl+F to search the document.

RedToothBrush · 11/05/2020 15:56

And this bit is really about promoting 'common sense' and personal responsiblity about social distancing when thinking about what you can and can't do:
The guidelines will be based on sound evidence - from what has worked elsewhere in the world, and the best available scientific theory. The most important guidelines people can follow to stay safer outside their homes are attached at Annex A. For example:

Individuals should keep their distance from people outside their household, wherever possible. Transmission is affected by both duration and proximity of contact; individuals should not be too close to other people for more than a short amount of time. Public Health England recommends trying to keep two metres away from people as a precaution.

It remains essential to keep hands and face as clean as possible. People should wash their hands often, using soap and water, and dry them thoroughly. Touching of the face should be avoided. Hand sanitiser should be carried when travelling and applied where available outside the home, especially when entering a building and following contact with surfaces. Clothes should also be washed regularly, as there is some evidence that the virus can stay on fabrics.

It is possible to reduce the risks of transmission in the workplace by limiting the number of people that any given individual comes into contact with regularly. Employers can support this where practical by changing shift patterns and rotas to keep smaller, contained teams. Evidence also suggests the virus is less likely to be transmitted in well-ventilated areas.

MarkingTimeIm59 · 11/05/2020 15:56

Utter gibberish

Somerville · 11/05/2020 15:56

Government guidelines for employers will be out tonight, transport tomorrow, according to Johnson in HoC.

MarkingTimeIm59 · 11/05/2020 15:58

Is anyone else watching Boris. Rambling nonsense.

Somerville · 11/05/2020 15:59

I didn't see anything nearly as detailed as driving lessons or orthodontists in the document or FAQ's, Fortyfifty but they might well be addressed in the promised details employers/transport advice coming tonight/tomorrow.

Viviennemary · 11/05/2020 15:59

If it's anything like last night's if will be a waste of time. I'm not bothering listening to any more of it.

Somerville · 11/05/2020 16:00

Yes, isn't it, MarkingTimelm56. Starmer's questions were incisive and precise, and Johnson offers gibberish in return.

Somerville · 11/05/2020 16:01

"The spirit of Romford will certainly be actuating our approach."
What the fuck is he going on about?

MockersxxxxxxxSocialDistancing · 11/05/2020 16:02

Blackford has just nailed him on "I have consulted the devolved administrations."

What a Pfeffeling Shitshow

MockersxxxxxxxSocialDistancing · 11/05/2020 16:03

And oh, the Brown-nosed Tory questions...

RedToothBrush · 11/05/2020 16:05

13. Public communication, understanding and enforcement

The social restrictions with which the Government has had to ask everyone to comply represent an extraordinary intrusion into the public’s normal way of living.

As the Government begins to adjust the restrictions, it faces a difficult choice: the more precisely the Government targets the measures, the faster it will be possible to move. However, the more complex the request becomes, the harder it is for people to comply with the measures.

"Stay at home" has been a simple, clear message. But as more social contact resumes, the Government will need to ask people to operate in new ways. This will require a high level of understanding, if adherence is to remain at the high levels the Government needs to avoid a second peak in infections.

The Government will therefore invest in enhancing population-wide public health education to ensure everyone has the information and education needed to take responsible risk judgements, and operate in a way that is safe for themselves and for others. Crucially, even those who are at low personal risk will need to continue following the rules and guidance so that they do not pass on the infection to others.

Whilst much of the Government's strategy centres on reducing the costs of complying with the measures wherever possible, as the UK moves into the next phase, where the Government will need to trust people to comply with more subtle social restrictions, the Government will also need to ensure robust enforcement measures to deter and reduce the threat from the small minority who elect not to act responsibly.

This is the 'don't be a selfish dickhead clause'.

Basically, it seems you can do pretty much anything you like now as long as you:

  1. Do it in your own household group alone - until we are otherwised advised. (The only exception being to met single individuals in public space - and still at 2 metres distance)
  2. Avoid other people as much as possible in ALL circumstance - always be a 2 metres.
  3. Don't bend the rules or assume they don't apply to you because you are low risk.

I think this is admirable in a way, but how realistic this is, I'm not sure.

I think this is where we will run into problems especially since the new guidance appears to limit the powers of the police in terms of enforcement. ESPECIALLY since the one section of the guidance that is particularly lacking is the non-existance information regarding enforcement.

You should expect LOTS to crop up in this area.

As it stands the rules (as of now in practice rather than Wednesday) rely on the public being good and considerate of others thats all as far as I can see.

I note the following paragraph:

A collective effort
The threat is a collective one; the responsibility to keep everyone safe is one everyone shares.

If the Government is to begin to adjust the social restrictions, it will require everyone to act thoughtfully and responsibly to keep R down, and the Government has little room for error.

If, as restrictions are lifted, everyone chooses to act cautiously and in line with the revised guidance, R will remain low, the rate of transmission will decline further, and the Government can lift more restrictions.

This effort must, however, be a shared and collective one; only a small number of new outbreaks would cause R to tip back above one and require the re-imposition of some restrictions.

In judging when to adjust each restriction, the Government will be guided by the best possible evidence and will be, as in this document, transparent about the basis for the decision

This is in the realm of proper liberalism and the idea that the public are free in the UK. HOWEVER there is a strong threat that if people are dickheads then we will get restrictions again.

Thats a huge gamble. A political one.

Somerville · 11/05/2020 16:17

Massive gamble. Because dickheads are already dickheading, and are only going to dickhead more.

Laiste · 11/05/2020 16:26

Look - come on people it's crystal clear:

RedToothBrush · 11/05/2020 16:33

David Allen Green always said during Theresa May's tenure that if people say something is 'clear' its anything but. The more they say its clear, the less it is.

The principle still applies...

TwentyViginti · 11/05/2020 16:34

Starmer's questions were incisive and precise, and Johnson offers gibberish in return.

Yep! Grin

SusieOwl4 · 11/05/2020 16:42

There are thousands of different jobs and many different family situations as well .

Employers have already been putting things in place.

Boris said that if you can’t work from home and you can’t get child care at the moment employers must take that into account

There also are further announcements to be made by education and the chancellor .

The message has not changed that much if you can work from home continue to do so . Employers are being given advice on how to operate safely at work .

If you think they can account for every person who wants to make up their own rules or every rogue employer then you are mistaken

But that happens in life anyway without this world wide problem .

SusieOwl4 · 11/05/2020 16:46

@Somerville

I agree but should we just stand still because some people are stupid?

I think it’s clear that if the figures creep back up in the traffic light system we will go back to where we were . He did say schools MAY open but only if the figures were correct.

He also said there may be more local guidance . So in some hotspots they might have to review their behaviour.

SusieOwl4 · 11/05/2020 16:48

@Viviennemary

Read the 50 page document then ,

Somerville · 11/05/2020 16:49

What does stay alert mean?

"Mr Speaker I think it'll be perfectly obvious to the house what we're trying to do and what we're saying when we say stay alert. What we're doing is re-emphasising, or emphasising, the importance of those who cannot work from home going to work, provided their workplaces are covid secure, provided they observe the rules on social distancing on public transport or however they go to work. That is what stay alert means, it's going to be absolutely vital, stay alert is going to be absolutely vital to our success in beating this virus. I think the British public understands exactly what we're trying to do, Mr Speaker, and I know they can rise again to this challenge."

FML.

Did no-one write a one line definition for "stay alert" or insist on him learning it?

Such as, "Stay alert means be alert to the rules on social distancing as you travel to and undertake work, if you cannot work from home and your workplace is covid secure."
I mean, it's crap messaging compared to "stay home", as it needs an explanation at all. But at least write and learn one rather than blathering all over the place continually.

Somerville · 11/05/2020 16:51

I agree but should we just stand still because some people are stupid?

No, personally I'm happy for slight, phased relaxations on the rules. I just think public health measures need to be based on clear messaging and good communication, and instead we've got a mess of a message presented via omnishambolic communications.

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