Disgusted at VE celebrations

[runrunrunrunt]

I absolutely cannot believe what went on last night in this country.

The government should never have encouraged this nonsense and instead should have firmly nipped the idea of celebration completely in the bud.

Absent Boris should have never implied lockdown will be eased on Monday a couple of days before a fucking sunny VE Day bank holiday when we still have 5,000 plus new cases every day.

It isn't rocket science.

I am absolutely appalled.

BovaryX, I read Karol Sikora’s piece. It’s undoubtedly a huge concern and people will have missed getting diagnosed with cancer which is tragic as are people who die from coronavirus. However, he wrote that piece on 22 April, over 2 weeks ago. Health professionals have shared on here as have news articles that our hospitals are now opening up more non CoVid 19 services and sectioning off CoVid 19 areas in hospitals. So I hope some of his concerns are being addressed. Lift lockdown imminently and not in a few more weeks could cause a surge again and suddenly hospitals have to close more non CoVid services down again.

Well, this is where the reality hits home.
Caught between the need for families to grieve in a manner they are used to, and need... and that of trying not to make matters worse.

Are there any words that can work in that situation?

(( hug ))
( don't know how to do fancy rose images etc )

Thanks @Lemonblast a very good point. I personally do not favour the natural herd immunity strategy.

As things currently stand, herd immunity is needed. By 'natural' herd immunity, I'm guessing you mean to let it run rife without intervention? In which case, yes I agree with you.

But we still need herd immunity to happen, just at a pace that suits us rather than the virus!

That's if we can develop a form of immunity at all...

There was no party in my street but apparently there were quite a few round the village and by all accounts it was very civilised with people sticking firmly to social distancing.

Not so much in my parents cul de sac....they have been isolating but were happy to join in sitting in their front garden with a G&T.

My DM told me today that they had to retire to the back garden after 2 hours because as time went on and flowed the social distancing was being increasingly ignored.

My DF was getting increasingly cross and threatening to start yelling "breech" and "Covidots" loudly much to my DM's embarrassment saying after this was over they'd still have live with these people, to which my DF responded "probably not all of them if they keep behaving like this...".

To be fair he's probably got a point though I can't help thinking of him getting increasing red faced and yelling "breech" like a latter day captain mannering...

They don't like it up 'em!

Verticalhorizon,, even if the strategy is to let natural herd immunity happen at a slower pace so hospitals don’t become overrun and even more people die as they can’t get treatment, if no treatments are developed or found to ameliorate the severity of the disease over the next year or longer or an effective vaccine developed then that will mean a lot of deaths by the time natural herd immunity is achieved. And of course as has just been discussed on here the science isn’t known yet whether natural immunity is possible.

I have written countless times on here that I favour the lockdown remaining as is for a few more weeks whilst the R rate in areas is still near 1 and whilst that is happening the govt trying in the next few weeks to put all their effort and focus on building testing, tracing and quarantine capacity. At that point lockdown can start to be lifted which I know needs to happen as soon as it’s possible to do so and the testing, tracing and quarantining system would hopefully keep the R number down and number of people infected.

The hope then is scientists will either find medications that prevent the disease developing into a severe form or a vaccine developed. This strategy might not work - medications or a vaccine might not be developed, but I want our govt to at least try this before accepting a slow pace towards natural herd immunity (with science not yet even sure natural immunity is possible)

Indeed, if we cannot contain the virus, there are many more deaths waiting to happen, and the NHS capacity only afford us a chance to save those that are really bad cases, but not beyond hope. How many that is is highly speculative.

To my mind, I agree, we need to try and keep the lockdown going, but that is from a scientific point of view. The social impacts also have to be managed, and this might be part of the mild loosening of restrictions.

That said, at some point, we have to conduct the grand experiment - loosening the restraint in order to measure the effects. If we are lucky, we might learn from other nations, and effectively allow them to be guinea pigs. It sounds a little harsh, but anybody coming out of lockdown is going to be a guinea pig right now.

If we implement too many loosening measures, it will be hard to identify which measures made the difference. So it's going to be a long process of test and measure.

The chances are (imo), that we will hit a point where the rate starts to increase and we have to rewind a little. It wont be a case of progressive loosening without a single backward step - that would be too much to ask for.

But as it stands, without 't a vaccine or medicine to aid recovery, it won't be over until we reach herd immunity, albeit slowly.

Its all fun and games at the street party until these guys show up

Zandathepanda

I could hear the ‘celebrations’ for VE Day in the distance. They got louder as the night went on and sounded like football chanting at the end. The music blasting out all evening was 80s/90s pop. Wish it had been pouring with rain. Would have helped with the spike in 2 to 3 weeks time.“

Oh my, lucky you with pop.
We were assaulted by a live singer with a PA system warbling, initially, Vera Lynn, George Formby and Gracie Fields songs. Extremely badly. Think Vic Reeves’ pub singer, couple of octaves higher. Switched to Churchill speeches and we heaved a sigh of relief. But no, she was back belting out duets from latter day musicals with a presumably drunken, from the sound, relative or neighbour.
We had to retreat inside and close the windows. 4/5 doors down. Our opinion or consent was not sought, even as they carried on after midnight, with one very confused man shouting “happy new year” and setting of a banger.
Singers from La Scala, Milan on balconies, it was not.
Virus or otherwise, inconsiderate dicks. Made even worse by equally inconsiderate planks honking their car horns as they drove past.

(Yes, I’m talking about you lot in the house with the slates all over the front 🤬)

there were an extra 500,000 cancer deaths (worldwide, not UK!) just from lack of research into new treatments etc

And likely to be the same this time. Most research is now concentrating on covid rather than cancer or whatever and the two main cancer charities - Macmillan and cancer Research uk are not only lending their staff and research facilities to the NHS but are looking at losing 50% of their funding.

Still let's all give money to the NHS because it's not like we already pay for it......oh wait.

Suckers. Can you see what the Tories are up to?

@Al1Langdownthecleghole I'm sorry about your Mum. My Nanna was in the ATS. Sadly gone before all this shit kicked off. But I've been reminiscing today about her role in the war, and my Grandads. Mum was born in 1944 and she admits that actually, it was hard for her to bond with her Dad when he returned from the war. He never really got to know her. A lot of servicemen probably suffered from PTSD and sadly her Dad died when she was 10 from bowel cancer. Something she now has herself. So for us, we have been so careful. And the VE celebrations focus have been about sharing memories and not an excuse to get pissed and have a mass party (as I have witnessed in my street)

Hugs

Health professionals have shared on here as have news articles that our hospitals are now opening up more non CoVid 19 services and sectioning off CoVid 19 areas in hospitals

However there is such a backlog in cancer diagnostic services that it will take months to work through them. And that's just the urgent cases. Just because non covid areas are opening up it doesn't mean that enhanced infection control procedures don't need to happen. It is estimated (by the people I'm working with in cancer services) that endoscopy services will be running at 50% capacity. At a time when they are already overburdened and underfunded.

Thanks @Leighhalfpennysthigh for that information. Undoubtedly a big concern and a hard balancing act. Also know the services are already are overwhelmed and underfunded which adds further to the issue.

To my mind, I agree, we need to try and keep the lockdown going, but that is from a scientific point of view. The social impacts also have to be managed, and this might be part of the mild loosening of restrictions.That said, at some point, we have to conduct the grand experiment - loosening the restraint in order to measure the effects.

I have said I agree lockdown has to start being lifted soon and understand if there is a small easing of measures announced tmrw. However, my view remains apart from some easing tomorrow, lockdown needs to continue a few more weeks to try and get the R number down a bit further whilst at the same time using these next few weeks to continue building testing, tracing and quarantine capacity. This if done well - and I appreciate it is an if with this govt - could keep the R number down buying time for scientists to develop medication that will stop the disease becoming severe in some and develop a vaccine. Of course neither might not happen but I want our govt to try.

I also don’t think this strategy for the next few weeks is just from a scientific premise, if the govt lift lockdown significantly tmrw (and it doesn’t look like they will thankfully) when the R number needs to be lower and the testing tracing capacity not sufficiently in place there is a high risk of another surge and lockdown having to continue with all the many problems it brings.

I agree it might be even with the containment strategy lockdown may have to happen again in the future or in areas (appreciate that is not without problems) and we could be facing two steps forward, one step back, but increasing testing, tracing and quarantining capacity is what I favour over just trying to keep the NHS from being overwhelmed and accepting a higher infection rate than if an effective testing, tracing quarantining strategy is put in place over the next few weeks. I want our govt to try knowing no guarantee of success.

@Guylan no probs. I'm working with the teams trying to get things resembling normal at the moment.

@MarieQueenofScots

Don’t be daft. What’s “fucking disgusting” is the need to turn a day of historical significance into a circus

What's fucking disgusting is you calling a day of historical significance 'silly' as if it had no importance and therefore all the deaths worldwide caused by WW2 are irrelevant.

Cancers services and diagnostics were not stopped in all trusts. We’ve had sadly many new referrals in the past few weeks. They’ve all had investigations and started treated as normal.

What's fucking disgusting is you calling a day of historical significance 'silly' as if it had no importance and therefore all the deaths worldwide caused by WW2 are irrelevant

What’s fucking disgusting is the sheet inability of some posters to read. Just to help you out, I called VE Day “a day of historical significance”.

I haven’t even used the word “silly” on this thread, so what is your agenda?

I mean come on @Soontobe60 you even quoted my post where I said it was “a day of historical significance”....

You’re making yourself look silly (see, I used the “S word” here)

@marie
As you commented on my post regarding the 'silly national event' comment I incorrectly assumed it was you who posted the original comment. I don't always look at the name of the poster when commenting, especially when it's a long thread. Apologies.

Thank you, apology appreciated

👍🏻