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Disgusted at VE celebrations

659 replies

runrunrunrunt · 09/05/2020 08:54

I absolutely cannot believe what went on last night in this country.

The government should never have encouraged this nonsense and instead should have firmly nipped the idea of celebration completely in the bud.

Absent Boris should have never implied lockdown will be eased on Monday a couple of days before a fucking sunny VE Day bank holiday when we still have 5,000 plus new cases every day.

It isn't rocket science.

I am absolutely appalled.

OP posts:
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12
TinRoofRusty · 09/05/2020 15:41

It won't be them that pay the price though will it?

So people who party and drink too much can't catch the virus? They're impervious to it? Halalujah, we should all get loaded then.

BovaryX · 09/05/2020 15:41

For those interested, here is Karol Sikora's extended statement. He is trying to highlight the serious implications of delaying treatment. He also asks why is the NHS unable to do what other countries manage? That is a legitimate question.

^Coronavirus has meant that cancer diagnostics and treatment have been put on hold. This pandemic has thrown our already stretched cancer services into disarray. Many patients have had their treatment rightly stopped because of the immunosuppressive impact, but we are seeing a wider scale rationing of cancer services.
Every day I receive dozens of tweets and emails from cancer patients who have had their treatment or check-ups delayed. Good friends of mine have had their chemotherapy delayed with no good reason, or even stopped altogether. Receiving a templated email telling you not to come for further treatment is not the best way to communicate such a bombshell. I have managed to help a few patients, but there is only so much anybody can do. Our health system has come to a shuddering halt. Hospitals have become mostly coronavirus-receiving stations and cancer patients are no longer a priority. I have been one of the loudest voices in favor of a measured lockdown; it was absolutely required to get control of the virus. But now that we are past the peak, and the data suggests, we have to get the system .The potential impact A group of us estimated that up to 60,000 cancer patients could unnecessarily die because of a lack of treatment or diagnosis, if the cancer diagnostic and surgical pathways remain shut for more than 6 months. This is an alarming statistic. We’ve seen a huge drop off in the diagnosis of cancer. A usual April would see 30,000 people diagnosed; I will be surprised if we make it to 5000 diagnoses in April 2020. Cancer has not gone anywhere. I have spent a lifetime fighting it and campaigning for awareness of early diagnosis. In a month, much of that work has been undone. Matt Hancock (Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, UK Government) and Chris Whitty (Chief Medical Advisor, UK Government) seem to be getting a firmer grasp on the perilous situation we are in, but the Government needs to let people know that the NHS is open for business. I was relieved to see my concerns raised with Boris Johnson (UK Prime Minister) at a daily press conference. Johnson committed that anyone who needs urgent cancer care will receive it. As oncologists, we all know the difference an early diagnosis can make. Sadly, I’ve lost count of how many people we’ve lost before their time, who could have had years longer if we caught the cancer earlier. Stage progression is totally dependent on time. Much medical litigation is about breach of duty around the time of diagnosis – not reporting a key image correctly or not being sent a timely initial appointment. If breach is proven, the next step is to prove causation. The experience of such litigation is that a delay of 6 months or more, for one of the common solid tumors, justifies compensation as the outcome will, on the balance of probability, be adversely affected. There will be thousands of people who have felt an usual lump, had abdominal pain or have lost weight unusually fast, who in normal times would have gone to their GP, but are now terrified to report it. People will die because of this. I’m always an optimist and have been outspoken on how well we are progressing through this pandemic, but I can’t sit back and watch as we wave the white flag and surrender thousands of lives to cancer. In other countries, we have seen that you can treat cancer and coronavirus. In the heat of the pandemic in Italy and China they managed to keep cancer treatment going. If they can do it, why can’t we? This is a ticking time bomb. We won’t know the damage caused by next month, or even next year, but when we look back in 2025 at the cancer mortality rates in 2020, we will be ashamed we didn’t do more.
So what is the solution? I’m acutely aware that it is easy to criticize, and that actions speak louder than words. My network, the Rutherford Cancer Centres (Reading, UK), have made huge efforts to assist the NHS. We are treating far more NHS patients than usual and are ready to help in any way we can. The collaboration has been successful, but we can go further. I’ve received upsetting emails from parents of young children who are in desperate need of Proton Beam Therapy (PBT) but have had their treatments delayed.NHS England’s program of sending patients abroad for PBT has had to stop for obvious reasons, and they simply don’t have the capacity to treat everyone who needs it at the Christie Hospital (Manchester, UK).We have three operational centers with spare capacity in North East England, South Wales and Reading (all UK). It is ludicrous that patients whose prognosis will suffer without the treatment are being forced to delay when we have the capabilities to start the treatment tomorrow.I have been impressed with the flexibility and pragmatism shown by NHS chiefs during this crisis. If they can take it one step further hundreds of cancer patients will benefit from PBT.Sadly, the issue is much wider than just PBT. We need to get hospitals back to doing what they do best – treating serious illnesses.
Setting up the various Nightingale hospitals across the UK has been a remarkable achievement. I’m relieved that they sit largely empty. I understand the staffing and logistical issues, but surely using them to exclusively treat COVID-19 patients would free up capacity in our usual hospitals and massively reduce the risk of infection?Conclusion To conclude, doing nothing is simply not an option. I joined Twitter to stand up for cancer patients who I saw were getting left behind – a month later and the situation is even worse. As oncologists, we all need to shout from the rooftop about the long-term impact this pandemic will have on cancer survival in this country^

WRITTEN BY
Karol Sikora (Rutherford Health plc,

VerticalHorizon · 09/05/2020 15:43

The other thing about lives saved is that if lockdown is to prevent overwhelming the NHS, and most people will have to catch it at some point, surely there is only two demographics who are saved - those who caught it during the peak that wouldn’t have had the infection been more spread out, and those who will survive with hospital treatment but not survive without it.

Not quite. Those that caught it during the peak were likely always going to catch it anyway. We all are likely to get it.
But the latter is true - those that would have died without NHS treatment are likely to be saved (but it's hard to know the precise figure).

However, there is also another benefit to 'flattening the curve' - and that is buying time for us to better understand how to treat it. Even if we can't find a vaccine, the longer we can drag out the spread of infection, the more time we have to defend against and treat it.

(there is a small counter argument, that with greater number we might better spot patterns, but it's weak argument with millions of known infections already).

VerticalHorizon · 09/05/2020 15:46

So people who party and drink too much can't catch the virus? They're impervious to it? Halalujah, we should all get loaded then.

Stop being deliberately obtuse.
People can pass on the virus with being infected themselves, and statistically, beer swilling under 50s are less at risk than older folks.

ohtheholidays · 09/05/2020 15:52

My Grandfather was one of the men who fought for our country in both world wars,we celebrated but we did it by having a BBQ in our back garden and thankfully no one else in our street had a free for all to celebrate VE day.

It would be a real disaster if tons of people have caught or spread the virus because of a celebration,I think people need to realize that were not out of the woods yet and the people that are taking risks need to realize they're not just risking they're health and they're lifes(which would be upto them)they're risking lots of other peoples and no one has the right to make that decision for other people.

The sooner everyone starts towing the line hopefully the sooner we can get out of this lockdown.

I'm not saying this as someone who isn't struggling with the lockdown because I am,most of my family are,we have 2DC that are autistic at home and were having to live through daily(and I mean multiple times a day)meltdowns,we can't see 3 of our DC because they have they're own places and one of them has severe asthma so were constantly worrying about him,one became a mum(and she's a single mum)last year(her baby's only 7months)for the fast time and we can't see her or our 1st Grandchild and our other son is still having to go out to work.

It's been a nightmare for us as a family but were doing all that we can to try and make sure that we can hopefully sooner rather than later come out of this lockdown.

Bertie30 · 09/05/2020 15:53

I think it was inevitable really given the dangling of the loosening on lockdown. Once booze is involved then for a lot of people sense goes completely out of the window. On my estate there were groups sat in big circles and their kids just doing what they wanted. Lots of cars parked down the street too so clearly visitors. I think it looked like good fun and hope it doesn’t come back to bite anyone, all quiet again today. Maybe people just needed to let off steam and that was the day. A celebration/ remembrance for the Nation, hot weather, 7 weeks of staying in. It just came to a head. I didn’t get involved, the Fireworks were well OTT though.

VerticalHorizon · 09/05/2020 15:59

It's also poignant that whilst 7 weeks of lockdown is a very mixed experience for people, we aren't being bombed. We aren't losing a generation of young people. In comparison our current sacrifice bears no resemblance to theirs.

Our lockdown has actually been relative mild compared with Spain and Italy.

TabbyMumz · 09/05/2020 16:13

"too ignorant to acknowledge that it’s the very generation who gained peace and freedom 75 years ago who are now dying in their thousands in our care homes"

"THIS ^"

"Totally this"

Actually no. Most of those who fought in the war are already deceased. The war ended in 1945. To have fought in it you'd have had to have been at least say 18 plus in 1945, which would make you about 93 plus now.

SabrinaTheTeenageBitch · 09/05/2020 16:19

Im absolutely staggered by some of the comments on here. I have a disabled child who's father is inevitably going to have to return to work soon. I would very much like the R number to be as low as possible and the hospitals coping when he does. What a selfish bunch of arseholes

Im not one for watching the tv usually - has the news always bigged up VE day celebrations this much? Its almost like people are being encouraged to go against the lockdown

VerticalHorizon · 09/05/2020 16:27

It wasn't only soldiers who helped to win the war. It was a national effort. Plenty of younger folks still did their bit.

TabbyMumz · 09/05/2020 16:32

"t wasn't only soldiers who helped to win the war. It was a national effort. Plenty of younger folks still did their bit."
Yes, but again, you've got to consider their age. Anyone younger than 18 is a child, but but if you think say 15 year olds plus might have helped, that takes you to 89 year olds.

TabbyMumz · 09/05/2020 16:32

Or sorry, 88.

VerticalHorizon · 09/05/2020 16:32

I also think they could join at 16 with parental consent, and it's well documented that some lads lied about age.
But still, the point remains, there are still a fair few in their 90's in care homes, or living in our midst

VerticalHorizon · 09/05/2020 16:34

It's a bit churlish to nit pick it's only those in their 90s... they are still around and still at risk and that was the real crux of the message that someone was trying to get over.

Al1Langdownthecleghole · 09/05/2020 16:38

Tabby. My DM was 19 when the war ended and in the ATS. She died with Covid at the beginning of April. Are you really claiming that drunken street parties are a suitable way to remember her and everyone else involved in WW2?

PuppyMonkey · 09/05/2020 16:38

@SabrinaTheTeenageBitch 75th anniversary.

TabbyMumz · 09/05/2020 16:40

Bit churlish for you to nitpick with me too vertical!! Was just pointing out that the majority of those who fought in the war are dead. Of course there will always be those like yourself to nitpick that, who say "ohhh no, you are wrong, my great granny did this and that ", but the fact remains, most are deceased. There are still some that will be over 93 obviously.

SabrinaTheTeenageBitch · 09/05/2020 16:41

@puppymonkey - Ah yes of course, thank you. Still think the coverage of street parties is irresponsible given the situation though

thenewaveragebear1983 · 09/05/2020 16:44

My dh's grandad fought in the war and actually said yesterday that VE Day wasn't a particularly happy day for him as he was still in India, still fighting. His war wasn't over.

He's currently in his home, alone, and has been for 7 weeks and genuinely fears that he will never see his family face to face again.

I hope that anyone who believes they can justify the fact that yesterday they broke social distancing, as on any day if they break it, can picture a 96 year old Man, alone, who fought for our freedom, frightened to go out and fearing he will die alone in his armchair. I hope they feel pleased with the decision they made yesterday. I hope their conscience can live with that.

It was perfectly possible to have a lovely day, commemorate the war veterans/ victims, without leaving the boundaries of your home and anyone who did do is partly culpable for any impact on our health, nhs, economy, mental health ....

SleepingStandingUp · 09/05/2020 16:46

Imagine having a celebration to commemorate the brave actions of our elderly and using to spread a virus that kills them. It's astounding.
The Govt didn't force people to get pissed and get close to eaxh other. Plenty of people managed to celebrate safely or not at all. Every day they say "you still need to stay home". If people don't do that, that is a choixe they are making and it's their own fault

VerticalHorizon · 09/05/2020 16:51

"too ignorant to acknowledge that it’s the very generation who gained peace and freedom 75 years ago who are now dying in their thousands in our care homes"

She is correct. That generation (who are still alive) ARE the ones dying in care homes, just not the only ones.

That is not the same are saying all those in care homes are from that generation.

Yes it's mutual nitpicking, I'll hold my hands up to that, but the sentiment is right and I'll defend it!

TabbyMumz · 09/05/2020 16:54

"Are you really claiming that drunken street parties are a suitable way to remember her and everyone else involved in WW2?"

You seem to be confused a1langdowntheclehole....I didnt say anything of the sort.

VerticalHorizon · 09/05/2020 16:56

If those making the choices to get drunk were the only ones to suffer, it wouldn't be so bad, but their choices affect others, that's the problem.

And again, it's not just the social distancing, it's the sharing of food, plates, napkins etc etc. You can sit on a wall, vacate it, and leave the virus for the next person to pick up on their clothing. The 2m guideline is just one of the measures. It's a genuine shame that we couldn't celebrate VE day with streetparties, but at the same time, I'm not sure the nation would have been quite so enthusiastic had they not been cooped up for the 7 weeks prior.

VerticalHorizon · 09/05/2020 16:58

Yes, @TabbyMumz and I are nit picking merrily, but she didn't defend drunken celebrations.

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