Disgusted at VE celebrations

[runrunrunrunt]

I absolutely cannot believe what went on last night in this country.

The government should never have encouraged this nonsense and instead should have firmly nipped the idea of celebration completely in the bud.

Absent Boris should have never implied lockdown will be eased on Monday a couple of days before a fucking sunny VE Day bank holiday when we still have 5,000 plus new cases every day.

It isn't rocket science.

I am absolutely appalled.

@Glowcat it isn’t just the lack of chemo. My husband treats cancer patients surgically and their operating capacity has been significantly cut so fewer patients can receive that form of treatment.

I’m aware that there will be deaths due to a delay in cancer treatment. I’m also very aware that anyone undergoing chemo would be incredibly vulnerable to Covid-19.

It's not just about undergoing chemo though is it? Loads of people aren't even going to get diagnosed in the first place, leading to much worse outcomes by the time they do.

We had a party in our area of the village, people kept their distance, everyone said it was nice to get out and chat. The infection rate around here is 0.5% and the neighbours and I all think we have had it, we sat either side of the gate.

It was not a silly event, it is important to many people

@Glowcat it isn’t just the lack of chemo. My husband treats cancer patients surgically and their operating capacity has been significantly cut so fewer patients can receive that form of treatment.

Yes, and for an awful lot of cancer patients, surgery is the biggie when it comes to giving the best possible chance. As long as it is caught early enough that is.....

There's a term for all this stupidity

We had a party in our area of the village, people kept their distance, everyone said it was nice to get out and chat. The infection rate around here is 0.5% and the neighbours and I all think we have had it, we sat either side of the gate.

Great! Unfortunately that's not the situation for everyone.

There was a statistic that cancer diagnoses usually run at 30,000 visits per month. That has reduced to 5,000. 2 million operations have been cancelled. There are going to be unnecessary deaths as a direct consequence of these measures.

www.itv.com/news/2020-04-22/60-000-cancer-patients-could-die-because-of-lack-of-treatment-or-diagnosis-oncologist-on-coronavirus-dilemma/

I know. My point is that although the lockdown will cause preventable deaths among cancer patients by disrupting treatment, continuing some treatment would carry higher risk. I hope theatres will be functioning again soon.

Testing is increasing...of course the number of cases is going to go up! Its probably been this high the whole time but we weren't testing so didn't know.

Life has to go on and we need to get back to some sort of new normal.

The lockdown isn't to stop people catching covid, its to reduce the number of people who get it at once. We are all expected to catch it at some point

I doubt most of the idiots even had a clue about what yesterday was supposed to be about. It was just an excuse to do what they usually do, get drunk and act stupid. The trouble is it’s always the NHS that have to pick up the pieces and deal with these people. If they were only putting themselves at risk, fine, but they are putting everyone at risk, even their own families.

We had a party in our close. Each household sat on their own drive with their own foid ans drink , had Absolute 1940s radio playing on the speaker, it was lovely and we all really enjoyed it

I didn't join in my village's celebrations for this reason. Idiotic and organised by the over 70s and attended by the GP who should know better

This disease contributes to deaths in many indirect ways. It's not alone in that, but it still worth remembering.

People are putting off getting treatment for other illnesses partly out of fear that they might be putting extra strain on the NHS, and partly out of fear of coming into contact with what they perceive as increasingly risky people, or environments (health workers, wards, clinics etc).

Depression, anxiety and other mental health issues are exacerbated not only by the effects of lockdown and fear of the disease, but by financial worries, concern for others, uncertainty about the future etc.

Then there is the issue of the economy longer term... money lost / spent on this immediate situation also means an increased likelihood of reduced funds in the future (or reduced funds for other services). 100 million on Covid-19 PPE might mean 100 million not spent on a new cancer ward, or mental health services, or drug treatment centres etc.

Like so many tragedies, the ripples continue well beyond the initial splash.

@BovaryX are you going to come back to me with how you would end lockdown? Will you just sacrifice all the covid patients for the good of the economy?

Without a vaccine everyone will eventually get covid19.

Most people will have mild symptoms only.

A small number of people will need to be hospitalised.

The lockdown is to manage the number that need to be hospitalised so the NHS can cope.

The NHS is coping very well, hence the closure of the NHS nightingale hospitals.

The lock down needs to be eased so more people can get covid but balanced with the NHS capacity.

Only the vulnerable and shielded should avoid social contact

Testing is increasing...of course the number of cases is going to go up! Its probably been this high the whole time but we weren't testing so didn't know

You are stating the obvious. The numbers are still far too high though. Germany who is testing far far more than us didn't even think about relaxing lockdown until new daily cases were below 1000

Bovary that’s shocking! A lot of people are in the moment rather than seeing what’s around the corner. I think it’s going to be ironic that more deaths due to knock on effects will occur after this than actual Clovid ones.

we are all probably going to get it over the next two years or until a vaccine is produced and given out to the majority of the world.

@cushioncovers, I keep seeing people on here saying this, but it may not have to be that way if the govt put all their focus in the next few weeks on building testing, contact tracing and quarantining capacity whilst maintaining current lockdown. This may help keep the numbers low until treatments are found that will at least prevent the illness getting worse or a vaccine (though not guaranteed vaccine will be able to be developed). This is what South Korea did, what Germany are trying.

BovaryX makes a valid point. I don't think they are saying they'd just end lockdown (although I could be wrong), I think they are just pointing out that whilst we focus on the present and new danger, we lose a little focus on more familiar ones - which also bears a cost.

I question the use of 'unnecessary deaths' though. Sadly, regardless of the current pandemic, with x amount of resources, we can save y amount of lives. Attempting to save Covid-19 lives will, by necessity result in other lives being lost. Quite how many is the difficult question.

Every single budget, every pay rise, every choice of investment works this way. We just have to hope that we save more lives than we lose with each fine tuning of the system.

Ps I should add to above once the testing, tracing and quarantining system is up and running and we get the R number down a bit further then lockdown can be significantly lifted, so by June. Lockdown does need to ease but we need a few more weeks.

Runrun I don’t mind answering that question.

I’d start by looking at areas where it’s least been affected and open them up first.

I’d ask for all people who can work from home - to stay working from home but still open the schools up.

There is no evidence of any out breaks in schools with the children and teachers who have still been attending.

No gatherings of over 50 unless it’s in school

Shielded people need to stay shielded.

Super markets should still observe social distancing measures and so should restaurants and bars.

A new slogan of ‘common sense saves lives’

And yes I’d implement that now.

My understanding regarding treatments for other illnesses is that they have been significantly reduced, although people on here have shared a few cancer treatments have been still going ahead, but hospitals are now working to sectioning off CoVid areas and return wards and clinics to their original purpose with more treatments being opened up again. If we significantly lift lock down imminently and not use these next few weeks go get testing, tracing and quarantining in place and r number down further to give this strategy the best chance of working cases will surge again and any progress undone.

My worry is not enough people seem to be aware that the testing, tracing and quarantining strategy is one the public and media should be urging the govt to put all their focus on in the coming weeks.

@cushioncovers THIS.

Exactly what you've said. You've hit the nail on the head there.

My DJ was 9 on VE Day. We have been shielding since mid March. Yesterday I drove him round the block so he could see the flags, WW2 vehicles etc. We didn’t stop and we’re out for 10 minutes. It meant so much to him. I know we shouldn’t but I can’t regret it.

DH not DJ!