Italy v England. Why the different levels of sympathy?

[Whatsthis1515]

I am noticing that people feel sorry for Italy regarding their death toll but for the UK, people are scathing and pointing fingers. Why is this? I know Italy was supposed to be a lesson to us, but surely in that case, they didn't do the right thing either?

Interested to know what you all think.

Thanks

@B1rdbra1n yep Sweden would have to test to prove it. The other proof is that it stops spreading there and they don’t get a second more deadly wave.

@cakeisalwaystheanswer yes I am also shocked by the Canada story which just goes to show that we need to follow the facts and not the hearsay and propaganda. I am also shocked that somebody said they had friends in Toronto who were laughing at the UK. That has really shocked me. I don’t think anybody here is sitting laughing at Spain or Italy. But clearly the UK is fair game to be laughed at. I would ensure people have their own house in order before laughing at another country suffering.

I really don't believe that anyone anywhere is laughing at anybody. Incredulous at the likes of Bolsonara in Brasil and the advice in Belarus maybe but actually laughing? That would just be weird and I suspect is being said for effect.

Of course its been said for effect.

Its basically admitting your friends are heartless shits, to try and make a point that people don't like the British.

Its weird. I went to Cuba a few years ago. Met a few Canadians. All twats. My assumption was the group of people were twats. Not that Canadians were twats.

I dont like some of Canada politics. Again.....doesn't mean they are all twats.

Someone boasting here their friends are laughing at people dying. Again, doesnt mean all canadians are twats. And if anyone said 'I hate canadians' people would be calling them all sorts. But its OK. Especially if its the English you are saying it about.

Erm, the NHS, police forces etc. As they were following the government they didn’t order until late.

Believing that a single person coming from China could not infect the U.K. magically,

@CherryStoneTree but by the time China admitted what was going on and the WHO got on the train it was far too late. France have said they had cases there as early as late December. Proven now. Italy has said that genetics say the virus started in Oct 2019 in China. So by the time the WHO were saying that human to human transmission was not possible (Jan 23) and slamming Trump for closing his borders, it was too damn late. The horse has bolted.

@Peggysgettingcrazy yes I don’t what it is about people being able to slam the Brits the whole time. If a child of mine was getting bullied and slammed the whole time I would tell them that it is because others are insecure in some way.

We absolutely had time to prepare. My son reminded me today - he was in the waiting room at our GP surgery on 30th or 31st January. A man came in and went up to the receptionist and said "I need an appointment. I've recently flown in from China and I have a cough and tight chest and feel unwell". The receptionist was alarmed and immediately sent him outside. My son and his father were alarmed too that they had been in the same room as this chap and immediately came home and told us about it. We were all aware of and scared of Covid19. At the end of JANUARY.

@Chicchicchicchiclana but it wasn't covid was it?

That would have been the first case of it, if it was. And the first cases were in York, and they hadn't had contact with anyone.

So while your son and his father were alarmed. That wasn't a reason to start locking down then.

He didn't have it.

No, my point was that as ordinary lay people we were aware of coronavirus looming threateningly on the horizon. As was the GP receptionist and this was about 8 weeks before lockdown. All that time when we could have been restricting travel, cancelling mass gatherings and getting our teststing and ppe stock levels up.

But the NHS was.

My company do work for the NHD on their buildings. They were preparing.

The PPE shortage is worldwide. We would have been able to stockpile enough for the next months. Plans were already in place. It was another month before the was xase of it being transmitted inside the UK.

I am not saying they have handled it well at all. The day your experience happened they had to announce the first actual case in the UK. It wasn't sweeping the globe.

Trump is cunt. But when he stopped travel from China, he was called racist. Obviously, he is racist. But that one act was called racist, now people are saying it should have happened. Chances are, if we had done that the givernwmt would have been called right wing racists.

This is a new time. Mistakes have been made. But I dont think they should have been in emergency mode back in late January.

@Bool have you ever lived in a country with a good healthcare system? The average Brit has no idea how bad things are in Britain

@Reginabambina yes I have lived and worked in a handful of countries abroad. Let me know which countries you think have a good health system and I can answer your question.

What mistakes do you think were made Peggy and how could the UK Govt have handled things better? Why is our record with handling coronavirus in this country so particularly appalling - especially given the heads-up we witnessed from our very close neighbours Italy, France and Spain?

Yep I went skiing on the 26th Jan and was very careful with hand washing at the airports, took hand gel on the plane. If I was nervous and aware then so should the bloody government have been.

It doesn’t take a genius to work it out. If you look at Australia’s timeline they were on it straight away in Jan, ordering more PPE, ventilators and then being quick to close the border (ignoring the crap WHO) advice.

We don’t know for sure the York cases were the first. There are suggestions that the Austrian ski man bought it over before then. Many people are asymptomatic.

The cases in York didn’t have contact with anyone? So they flew on an empty plane? Walked through an empty airport? Stayed in an empty hotel? No contact with anyone whatsoever?

I think most of the world feel sympathy for both countries.

Whole hospitals were built in weeks, the NHS was prepared, a full support package for furloughed workers, there was a lot of planning when the UK saw what was coming. Those that say we did nothing clearly have no idea of the sheer scale of the logistics.

There is no point posting anything positive, because this thread will become like all the others and become a political, labour led tory bashing exercise. So predictable.

Everyone saying "The government did nothing" has no idea. Just because you don't know what the government did, doesn't mean they did nothing. Do the critics seriously believe that no planning, preparations or action was taken? Well how ignorant you are.

Any individuals who took early action by staying at home before the government advised it, and buying a store of food and other supplies were pilloried.

Just the usual critics sitting in their armchairs of hindsight.

What mistakes do you think were made Peggy and how could the UK Govt have handled things better? Why is our record with handling coronavirus in this country so particularly appalling - especially given the heads-up we witnessed from our very close neighbours Italy, France and Spain?

I think the 'work from home if you can' should have be stricter. Many companies decided that meant if they didn't want their staff to work from home, they must come in. I was told my team couldn't work from home. I said no. I negotiated having the team cycled. So only one was in. Meaning far less people in the office, but still someone there for the imaginary work they said we needed to be in for.

Also, I pointed out that if we ended up having to be working from home it was best to set up then, so we could resolve any issues. I gor the team set up with laptops and everything they needed in 2 hours. That was Friday. By lunchtime Monday we were told we had to go work at home. We locked down Monday night.

They could have stopped events like Cheltenham going ahead.

They could have checked people coming into the country. Our had other rules. My kids flew in from Italy on the 8th March, with their dad. 2 days later the recommendation was anyone coming in from Italy should quarentine for 14 days. Given how the numbers rose when they were there, me and exh had decided that the day before they flew back. Yes, not everyone would have. But at least most doing it would have better.

I actually don't think our record is as bad as its made out. Our population spread always meant we would be hit badly.

I think for thier own sake the government really should have pointed out that majority of homes are profit making private businesses and of course they weren't going to get VAT free ppe as that they were along for

We don’t know for sure the York cases were the first. There are suggestions that the Austrian ski man bought it over before then. Many people are asymptomatic.

If the man wondering into the doctors had covid, he would have been the first case.

The first known cases were the students.

Not this man. So he didn't have it. He would have been the first case.

When did the man sking bring it back?

The cases in York didn’t have contact with anyone? So they flew on an empty plane? Walked through an empty airport? Stayed in an empty hotel? No contact with anyone whatsoever?*

No in york. Thats why it was dealt with very quickly.

Speculating about someone might have brought it over sooner, doesnt stop when the first known cases were.

It doesn’t take a genius to work it out. If you look at Australia’s timeline they were on it straight away in Jan, ordering more PPE, ventilators and then being quick to close the border (ignoring the crap WHO) advice.

It's easy to say that the Australian government got everything right with coronavirus - only a few months ago we watched Australia ravished by bushfires.

Jan 2020 - "Australia's Prime Minister Scott Morrison has expressed regret over his handling of the bushfire crisis ravaging the country."

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-51080567

What do the left wing media say about Scott Morrison now?
This is from the Guardian in January;

"There are worse leaders than Scott Morrison.The “international community” includes torturers, mass murderers, ethnic cleansers and kleptomaniacs beside whom he seems almost benign. But no leader in the world is more abject than the prime minister of Australia."

"He cuts a pathetic figure. A leader must speak honestly to his people in a crisis.The sly tactics of climate change denial, the false consoling words that it’s a scare and we can carry on as before, have left Morrison’s words as meaningless as a hum in the background. Nothing he says is worth hearing."

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jan/04/australias-pathetic-pm-reveals-much-about-the-rights-efforts-to-deny-reality

Yeah I was going to put a disclaimer in saying Australian PM not popular and shocking handling of bush fires.

Maybe why he acted quicker in this situation.
I do appreciate both Australia and NZ have lower total population and lower population density than us.

I just think we were caught sleeping a bit. That article about the ‘lost 10 days’ is very insightful but I can’t find it now. Given how quickly this virus spreads, inaction for a week or so can make a huge difference.

I think we should have, at a minimum, been asking people from hotspots such as China to self isolate for 14 days. Then Italy after half term. Then when other countries started to shut borders like Austria, we should have swiftly followed. Can’t be accused of racism if everyone else is doing it.

@Delatron I’m pretty sure Scott Morrison acted fairly swiftly due to co cents over the economy. Bushfires aren’t going to cause a massive recession the way severe and prolonged lockdowns would. He’s been desperate to avoid a recession his entire term. This is just an extension of that.

@Clavinova what do bushfires have to do with anything? They’re pretty standard here and not exactly preventable. Yes they should have made more efforts to contain fires with land clearing/burn offs given the drought but it’s not like the government could just stop bushfires altogether. If that was possible it would have happened a long time ago.