For those who want schools to go back..

[pfrench]

.. tell us how you think it should work. Primary or secondary.

In your ideal world.

How would social distancing be adhered to?
How about drop off and pick up?
How would classrooms operate?
How about lunchtimes and breaktimes?
What about after school childcare provision?
What about staff who are sheidling?
What about children who are sheilding?
What about staff who have family members who are sheilding?
Should only some children go back? Who should they be and why?

So many education and school experts on here, it will be interesting to read your safe solutions.

Obviously also in France a lot of people are not happy about schools reopening -- my in-laws in western France are not sending their kids in. But they have at least one parent not working so it's not a huge problem for them.

Wales were clearer today on their briefing. No schools in June. I don’t know if anyone has mentioned it here, but I am sure I saw someone mention it. As more and more key workers need child care as their places return to work or their partners do, also vulnerable children. There is a significant up tick on these places being filled in schools now. More, staff and more students than before are now taking places and going into work. Which means if everyone who is entitled to take these places, does. Then there isn’t the room for anyone else with reduced class sizes or social distancing. Which is why people expecting ‘big changes’ don’t. Schools are starting to really see an up tick in key worker and vulnerable children places being taken up.

No he didnt he said if they were to open June 1 a decision would need to be made today and it wasnt and they arent opening in a major way

Plenty of room to make a different decision in a couple of weeks

We don’t know what the UK government will be saying about schools in England, so I’m not going to speculate on that. I said, a week ago, that it needed three weeks from the point you made the decision to a school reopening. We’re at that point where if we’ve made the decision schools will be reopening in Wales in June. We’re not making that decision today for all the reasons I’ve already set out. And that’s why Kirsty Williams our education minister confirmed that schools in Wales wouldn’t be reopening in that major way in June.

They won’t be open, sorry. Like I said schools are already filling to capacity now with key worker children.

So if the primary reason for getting schools back overall is childcare (I know that's not everyone's priority but no-one contradicted pfrench when she said this up thread, what are peoples' plans come mid-July -beginning of September?

It's unimaginable that playschemes and the like will be operational over the summer.

What will people do for childcare?

I'm sure that some will have annual leave to use, but probably not for the whole six weeks.

I don’t get this focus on schools not opening. Does no one here work in a role that can’t be done from home? Wtaf are these people going to do if schools don’t reopen and no paid child care. Not everyone has friends and family who can baby sit.

Companies are going to reopen on the next couple of weeks. When they do they will no longer furlough, it’s employers discretion. They will expect their staff in. Need them in,

I don’t know if the people posting are all stay at home parents who only care about themselves, or people who genuinely believe that even with their company open and fully operational they will some how be furloughed until schools and paid child care reopen.

Think again. When companies reopen, or the government says schools do, you’re either going in or you’re ultimately leaving your job so they can employ someone who can or wishes to do the work

@Bflatmajorsharp play schemes have been open during the holidays and some additional days too to support the pandemic they will be opening for the main summer holidays for parents of key workers only. Also hubs stayed open for Easter holidays Im assuming the hubs will stay open too in July/Aug and just rotate staff.

@Bluntness100 I agree

Also hubs stayed open for Easter holidays Im assuming the hubs will stay open too in July/Aug and just rotate staff

If the schools are back before the summer term, I doubt the teacher-run hubs will remain open all summer for childcare.

That doesn’t mean holiday clubs won’t be a Isobel though.

Greenlorry I'm not talking about children of keyworkers.

Schools are already providing care for them.

It's other workers needing childcare that I was referring to.

Re summer - same as every year - we take annual leave of unpaid leave. So I’ve got that covered for August, as usual.

Presumably there are people not so lucky, who normally use holiday clubs or grandparents though.

Bluntness I'm neither a sahp nor someone who cares only about myself.

In principle, I think all children should be in school (unless they're home-schooled). As someone said earlier, there's no actual way of knowing who all the vulnerable children are - the universality of education provision has a highly protective function in that regard.

It's the how it can happen safely that is the problem.

Honestly can’t get my head round it. It does seem to appear some folks think they are entitled to furlough. They are not. It’s an employers choice. And when a business reopens they will expect their staff in. Because they need those staff to run the business. If you can’t do it, you’ll get a short period of unpaid leave then have your employment terminated.

So either we have a whole bunch of people posting here who don’t work. And don’t care about those that do, or they think they get to say sorry I can’t come in and they suddenly are entitled to furlough and their jobs kept open. It’s not the case, it’s never been the case and it’s highly unlikely ever to be the case.

When your employer says go back. Then you go back. There is no right to furlough. There never has been. And if you don’t go back you’re ultimately out. Your employer doesn’t give a fuck about your personal life, be it child care issues, personal fear or the fact your granny is vulnerable.

If you can’t do your job, then they need to find someone who can

Daffodil101 yes. I'm in London and the holiday clubs/child minders would usually be more or less fully booked for the summer now.

That's the childcare I was wondering about.

I don’t think anything is going to be totally safe but I would like to see the schools go back in August provided the transmission rate is under control so that the NHS can cope. That was the idea- to flatten the curve so cases were over a longer period of time. Not for us all to stay inside until a vaccine as we would have starved by then.

Some teachers may not want to go back to work but that’s not really relevant. Life must go on

Bluntness the law requires that employers do at least pretend to give a fuck about peoples' personal lives.

That's why we have annual leave, sickness leave, dependency leave, parental leave, compassionate leave, maternity and paternity leave in the UK.

I'm also not particularly talking about people who have been furloughed.

I'm talking about people who are struggling to wfh with children also at home.

Schools returning in June on a p/t basis without wraparound childcare or after school provision wouldn't solve this problem.

CayrolBaaskin teachers are already at work.

They are either wfh or in school looking after child of keyworkers.

We come back again to the alternatives and the four areas we need to consider. Spread, safeguarding, childcare and education.

Option 1: provide sufficient childcare for people to return to work as normal. In order for this to be useful, we would need more than 1 day per week, or half days. Infection rates will rise, the NHS will be unable to cope (see Angela Merkel on this, and Germany is in a far better state than we are to deal with this). We will have to go into another lockdown and it will take even longer to bring cases back down. Result : longer, not shorter lockdown. Greater, not smaller adverse effect on the economy.

Option 2: have children in on a limited basis, perhaps with limited year groups. This is better from an education point of view. It would allow us to observe the effect schools have on spread, but obviously with this, it brings with it risks of enhanced spread. It means the rate of cases will lower more slowly and test and trace will be less effective. It does not in any way solve childcare issues for any but the most part time of workers. If it does solve childcare issues, it is because too many children are in and we are back to Option 1.

Option 3: Have every child in for at least some time. This is a variant of option 2, but focuses more on safeguarding as every child is seen on a regular basis, rather than selected years. Again, it does very little to improve people's ability to return to work.

Option 4: Stick with distance learning until September. Commit to getting numbers low enough to test and trace. The aim of this is not to protect snowflake teachers, but to take the quickest route possible to a return to near normality. The aim is for this to be not only the safest option, but the one which restores the full economy most swiftly. The down side is that it does rely on our government actually being organised and together enough to pull it off.

A lot of people want to choose option 1, and pretend that the virus will just go away, or not really be that bad, or that children can't spread it at all, or that it won't affect anyone they really can't live without.

There is, I think, a really small possibility that this virus is much more widespread than we thought, and much less deadly. There's a chance that unlike every other virus we know, this isn't spread through surface contamination and children can't carry it. If this is the case then option 1 would be the right choice. It's a pretty huge risk, though.

I think those teachers who don’t want to work should be given the option to opt out, if they think the risk is too high.

Nobody has commented on why that isn’t an option.

I don’t think anything is going to be totally safe but I would like to see the schools go back in August

Not in England, certainly.

Some teachers may not want to go back to work

Teachers never left work, you prat.

(That’s a good post, Nellode)

No need to start name calling...honestly 🙄

So...let me rephrase....some teachers don’t want the schools to re- open. Why can’t they opt out if coming in?

You knew perfectly well that was what I meant.

You have just cemented your prat rating.

I think actually ALL teachers want schools to re open. A school only half full and open for childminding with the pressure of online teaching as well isn’t something people want. I’ve not known one teacher who has said they don’t want schools opening. Questioning if that’s safe or whether the schools have capacity with the current cohort isn’t saying they don’t want schools to open. Talk about spin.