For those who want schools to go back..

[pfrench]

.. tell us how you think it should work. Primary or secondary.

In your ideal world.

How would social distancing be adhered to?
How about drop off and pick up?
How would classrooms operate?
How about lunchtimes and breaktimes?
What about after school childcare provision?
What about staff who are sheidling?
What about children who are sheilding?
What about staff who have family members who are sheilding?
Should only some children go back? Who should they be and why?

So many education and school experts on here, it will be interesting to read your safe solutions.

Why’s that?

What we are saying here is that some teachers don’t think it’s safe to open schools.

My friend who teachers Y1 is one of them. She’s part time though. Her job share is happy to open schools. She would like to do extra hours.

There are two teachers shielding in that school. The head is happy to teach. That covers one. They have a lady who comes in to do supply. She could cover the other teacher.

Why can’t teachers be given a choice, parents be given a choice?

@isitorisntit that’s not really the impression you get from teachers on MN.
Reassuringly my teacher friends are much more positive about schools going back so I’ll cling onto that.

If I opted out I would not be paid.

I think a lot of people become very entrenched in their positions - either children DEFINITELY aren't carriers, or HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS WILL DIE! when actually, both positions are possible. We honestly don't know.

I'm a big advocate of getting cases low and following a test and trace policy. We're an island - we should use that to our advantage. I think we need to think past the next 2 months and onto the next year and that a bit more short term pain will make our lives much more bearable in the medium term.

Buuuut... I readily admit that our government could totally fuck it up. They've already invested in tests that don't actually work and an app that they look like they may be scrapping.

All of us should consider - what if we are wrong? Because it's very possible we might be. It's why our government should be directing scientists to find answers, rather than leaking ideas to the press and seeing whether Joe Public thinks they're a good idea.

Another balanced reply Nellode, thanks.

Are they really scrapping the App? 😳

Apparently, there are security concerns with the one our government commissioned, and we might switch over to using the Apple one? It's all leaked reports at this point in time, I think.

www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/may/07/uk-may-ditch-nhs-contact-tracing-app-for-apple-and-google-model

Interesting. There were questions asked in the first place about why we hadn’t used the Apple one.

Heads and SENCo's I've spoken to this week are all preparing for changes to start on June 1st (England). Nobody knows really if that will happen (I hope it does) and what that will look like but I imagine there will be a bigger push to get key worker children and vulnerable kids (even those who don't currently meet criteria) in to school first then some key year groups. I'm an NHS worker, not doing face to face appointments with patients at the minute in the clinic so I've been wfh with dc here. When this changes and I'm no longer able to wfh I will be sending my dc to school.

school staff I've spoken to are keen to get children in however they're coming at it from a SEN and safeguarding perspective and they might have a different opinion to a class teacher.

Why can't people trust teachers' professional judgement when we say that fully reopening schools at the current time is not safe?
It is very clear that most people on here want childcare as their top priority.
If that is the case then secondary schools could be used to split upper primary classes into smaller groups, using some secondary teachers plus primary TAs.

Saying "reopening schools" or "teachers going back to work" is a tad goady as teachers are working. And schools are open. In fact most teachers are also working in schools on a rota basis
I personally am totally happy in school in rota - the risk to staff and students is minimised, social distancing is still impossible all the time (because, well - kids) but there are steps in place.
Once you get more kids in school these steps become impossible and futile.
I personally am not happy to fully reopen schools because in my professional opinion it would not be safe for students and staff.

As a science teacher I do risk assessments all the time. My risk assessment at this current time says no. Once community transmission is lower, AND we have trace and track and isolate in place, then it will be much safer. That's probably September.

In the mean time I expect childcare for primary could probably be extended as per above if that's what people really need.

I've got a lot more confidence in Apple and Google's ability to implement this than a government contract. The Dyson and McLaren ventilators didn't arrive. The Burberry masks were a flop. Let's face it, our government are really, really bad at organising this. They should let the people who do this for a living get on with it, rather than trying to give jobs to the favoured few, regardless of actual capability.

It's not really feasible to keep schools closed until you have a solid tracking programme ready.

Either you rely on technology and apps to do a lot of that work, but to do so effectively you need to be fairly intrusive and a lot of people will not use them due to privacy concerns (and government fuckups to date will not be very reassuring).

Or you hire an insanely large number of people to do the work -- we're talking thousands of follow-up contacts to be tracked, even if you have a low level of cases. But the government doesn't show any inclination to do that so far.

It will be months before something is sorted out that would reassure a lot of people on this thread, and it's not very realistic to keep schools closed that long.

Schools are open. My school is small and we have alot of keyworkers children but the vast majority are vulnerable or looked after children so we are quite full. It would be impossible to have more than one year group extra in or there would be no social distancing.

It’s said been before but nowhere is going to be ‘safe’, not shops, not schools, not workplaces, not public transport, until there’s a successful vaccine and we’ve all had said vaccine and the virus is no more anywhere in the world. Realistically how long do you think that will be?!

People need to get back to work and kids need to get back to school. Preferably in June. Or yes more jobs will be lost and the economy will be even more screwed.

They’ll all be off again for 6 weeks in August. Perfect timing. Rather than a mass influx in September just as we go in to flu season.

If you reopen schools fully now you are asking for a second peak, a second lockdown, more NHS and essential workers dead.
If you keep them open as currently so social distancing and other measures can take place then numbers will be low enough for track and trace to be effective, and we will NOT get a second peak in flu season - because we will be on top of it.

Option 1, reopen schools entirely, get everyone back to work and "pretend the virus doesn't exist" is definitely, in my opinion, the worst, most damaging option, from every perspective. It's the Donald Trump, Jair Bolsanaro option.

Spot on as ever nellodee

Whynotme, I’m a DT teacher, l do tidal assessments a lot too. I totally agree with you. And I’ve just had to do a big RA for when the schools may be open again.

And guess what?! We can’t do any form of practical work due to the huge huge amounts of shared equipment. This is the same as other practical colleagues everywhere from what I’ve read.

So if the schools go back soon, each student will have to have their own stationery, scissors glue all the tine. We can lend nothing out without cross contamination fears

The government are a bit of a shitshow aren’t they?

Tidal assessment? What’s that!!!!? RISK assessment.

And it made me really fed up doing it. No fun, no practical until a vaccine. Colleagues in other departments and ours worrying that there’s not enough textbooks. Just like NHS, schools have also been underfunded for years.

In my y10 class, there is one text book between 3....-and even with tiny classes they will have to be quarantined for a day or so until they can be used again.

I fear that schools and learning will be dramatically different in so many unimaginable ways.

No textbooks = chalk and talk🤷🏼‍♀️ No practicals, no Art, no DT, all of it shared equipment touched by a million hands a day😭

@Daffodil101 unfortunately so

My concern would be that the R value had risen in the past week, as Prof Ian Diamond, the national statistician has agreed with research from Prof Edmund's at the london school of hygiene, that the R is likely to be just below one. To me it suggests that opening schools while still so close to a R value of 1 would pave the way for a second peak of infections. And looking through historic pandemics, often the second and third peaks that completely destroy the economy rather then waiting to get the R from the first peak down sufficiently.
Most countries that are easing lockdown already have a R value much lower then the UK. I would also consider the UK's R value to be the lower estimate as it's been quite well reported that coronavirus related deaths have been under reported when comparing the death figures from the least few months, compared to previous years and testing within the UK has been largely none existent. And the R is a statistical calculation, the incorrect reporting of numbers will ultimately skew any result. Under reporting the cause of deaths as coronavirus, while also not providing adequate testing means that the current number of coronavirus patients is hugely lower when compared to the actual number, and therefore the R value will be being calculated with considerably lower numbers then the true figures. Which makes the R value more then likely a lower estimation and I would treat it with huge amounts of caution as the true value is likely to be higher.

Instead of being angry at schools and even employers, why dont we consider putting the anger where it belongs. In the fat cats at top which had enough warning to make sure the situation didnt become what it has now, due to lack of planning and proactiveness. We shouldn't be expecting people to put there lives at risk because the government truly fucked up by not responding proactively and have resulted in one of the highest death figures in Europe. The teachers nor anyone else are at fault here, nor have they wanted to be in this situation anymore then the next person.

Interesting article about virus spread - especially interesting for e.g. primary classrooms, where 30-35 people share the same air of an enclosed room for hours at a time.

Article

Just the risk of safety goggles being used one class after another means no practicals in science.
And in a classroom lesson when I think of how many pens I lend, how many calculators. We only have 2 sets of GCSE textbooks for the entire GCSE cohort which have to be booked in advance as a resource - well we won't be able to use textbooks either.
What about all those (year 9s usually) who have taken their pen apart and lost the spring? Or just not got one? I'm not going to be lending pens out any more. Or glue sticks, rulers, calculators

Or the shared laptops?😖library books? Chisels? Hammers? Nails? Pins? Scissors? Thread? Fabric? Solder? Soldering irons? Saws? Goggles( all gone to NHS) Masks? Paints? brushes? Costumes? I don’t where to stop....