For those who want schools to go back..

[pfrench]

.. tell us how you think it should work. Primary or secondary.

In your ideal world.

How would social distancing be adhered to?
How about drop off and pick up?
How would classrooms operate?
How about lunchtimes and breaktimes?
What about after school childcare provision?
What about staff who are sheidling?
What about children who are sheilding?
What about staff who have family members who are sheilding?
Should only some children go back? Who should they be and why?

So many education and school experts on here, it will be interesting to read your safe solutions.

My take on this very tricky problem of what to do about schools going back is that the purpose of schools is to educate children, not to provide childcare, so the priority should be how to safely start providing some education.

As far as I can see the younger the child the less possible it is to do social distancing.

And those children who would benefit from school education most are children who are on the child protection register and/or have parents who can't or won't help their children with educational activities.

So I would let those children if they're 10 or over go back to school. And the Y12s. I would suggest going to school for a week them having a week off to minimise transmission of the virus.

The small number of pupils in school would allow social distancing.

I can't see anyone saying keep schools forever or until a vaccine?

But how do we make it as safe as possible? Some countries have staff and students wearing masks, part time school to enable social distancing and plastic screens?
Some have waited until community transmission was low enough and have trace and trace AND have social distancing and part time school. This would have my vote as our schools do not have adequate hand washing facilities and I don't think screens or masks would be appropriate.

Cool, thanks to the about 5 posters who actually answered the questions! I'm really glad I'm not in charge of this, it's a minefield.

All the teachers at my school want to go back asap. But we have a lot of behaviour questions in addition to the other safety issues raised above.

I listened to a media teacher type person (quite well known) on a podcast this morning talking about this. She ended up with the interesting idea that school maybe needs to stop being school for a few months, and reverts to being childcare for people who need it.

It won't stop or plug academic gaps, but it will get people back to work. It's my worst nightmare, and almost certainly won't happen, but it's an interesting idea.

I dont think they should be sent back too early .However unless they will shut indefinitely ,then there will never be a "light Bulb " Moment for them to return in perfect Safety .Teachers will have a difficult time trying to maintain social distancing I think . Maybe P/T for all children to start with ,and some kind of team games for younger ones at breaks ,to be supervised .Lots of hand washing and Sanitizer as well .

I’m sure there are plenty of low risk younger teachers available

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Space between seats

My classroom does not have room for this

If I had 2m between students I could possibly get about 6 students plus myself in my classroom. If 1m I could probably get 8.
I have class sizes of 34.

Also to consider is that for lots of children, schools going back in any of the formats the adults are suggesting - part time, distanced, PPE etc would be at best weird, and at worst terrifying!

There was a messaging opportunity missed somewhere over the fear factor. Children in school (I teach year 4) were talking about 'coronavirus' way before it was on my radar as a concern. Only a couple of weeks after Christmas holidays I think. I did an assembly late Feb about not being too concerned about it, and had to do another one just answering their 'questions in a box'.

It won’t be fair if I am unable to pay my mortgage, no. Honestly, do all these people who think schools should remain shut indefinitely have no financial commitments?

That wasn't what the poster was saying. They were saying that if schools are to have ANY infection control measures - such as social distancing, or frequent handwashing - in place, full day schooling for all children at the same time won't be possible.

That will mean some form of staggering / rota / part time schooling / to allow smaller numbers, which will be imperfect, at best, for childcare even if the physical school building is open full time, and every member of staff is working full time.

Does this mean we can't confiscate phones or food in class? How will they write if I'm not handing out millions of pens?

Looking forward to.working in a school where kids file in nicely, then sit quietly in one place all day.

I don't think there will be a perfect solution but I think what's becoming clear is that as transmission rates go down, we have to start thinking about what's next.

Personally, I think we need to get out of this idea of a blanket, one-size-fits-all approach. So, for example, in areas where cases and deaths have been low, schools may be able to go back with less stringent rules eg all kids go back full time with increased hand washing, sterilisation etc.

While in areas where cases and deaths are high we might need to do things different such as prioritise certain year groups, stagger classes (eg half days or one week on/one week off) or dedicate certain days to certain year groups eg Year 1s on Mondays, Year 2 on Wednesdays etc. All of these have significant downsides so they're just ideas.

I think expecting meaningful social distancing from children of all ages is pretty unlikely but it can be managed to a certain extent. Again, it would be useful if we had more definitive understanding of how children transmit this disease - we know that statistically they are less likely to die or to get it in a serious way but we still don't seem to have a definitive idea on whether they are significant transmitters. This is crucial. If and when we can figure that out, it will also play a huge role in the ongoing thinking.

Agree with a PP that the government may need to accept increased budgets to support different staffing options - to replace staff who are shielding or who are ill for example. Or to facilitate a longer school day which would allow, for example, two almost full-day sittings for children. So half school arrives at 8:30 and leaves at 13:00, the rest arrive at 13:30 and leave at 18:00 (or whatever similar version specialist think could work).

PPE for teachers and staff at the very least. Additional cleaning staff to be more actively cleaning and disinfecting may also be necessary ie throughout the day. Staggered meal times, possibly eaten outside where possible. Social distancing at pick up, with staggered collection times if necessary.

These are just some of the things I think need to be implemented. But my main one remains that trying to offer ALL schools across the country the same solution is unrealistic.

It's really hard. I want schools back. My DD is Year 12 and doing stem A levels. The college are doing a great job of teaching remotely but it's still causing my DD angst.

But it could be that she vi's getting a better education with all being taught from home, than she would going back too soon and finding teachers and pupils are constantly sent home to self isolate if they have any symptom. Rapid testing and results would have to be given to schools. And what happens if someone treats positive? Does the whole school close or do we just self isolate those who shared a classroom with the covid+ person.? Who administers that without breaching confidentiality?

Anyone suggesting secondary schools can stagger their timetables so only half the pupils are in have no understanding of the amount of time and work that goes in to producing their schools timetable each year.

I'm hoping the research about children and young people passing on the virus or not comes to a conclusion soon. We have to at least get secondary school kids back at school. Perhaps with primary it's easier to have them in only half the week and have more social distancing but that does seem unfeasible for KS1 kids, even if you only have 10 kids in a class.

The death rate is so low in children and teens. It's not fair to keep them from school to protect them. If it's to protect other adults (if it turns out they are passing it on when they have it and are asymptomatic) then teachers and parents will need to mitigate the risks to them with other measures.

She ended up with the interesting idea that school maybe needs to stop being school for a few months, and reverts to being childcare for people who need it.

I tend to agree with this.

For all those talking about missed education, any sort of phased/pt return won't really facilitate 'education' anyway. We need to get away from that as a focus.

If we can return with an acceptance that social distancing will be minimal and a focus on keeping the children safe and happy but without educational expectations then I'm happy to go back any time. If I'm worrying about enforcing social distancing, and trying to educate half a class many of whom won't come in on their allotted days and with parents complaining about the lack of both social distancing and education, then that will just be an added stress to the mix for staff and pupils.

I feel safe in school at the moment. We've discussed it a lot as a staff, and everyone feels the same. That's with 6 - 13 children in a classroom. They don't distance amongst themselves, but the adults can around them. Because there are only 6 - 13 of them at breaktime, it's easy to initiate distance type games and things. Issues arise when they hurt themselves, so first aid is a potential problem.

Also, and I think this is important - we've not had any children in with physical disabilities or physical elements of their special needs.

I'd be happy to go to school every day with the current number of kids per classroom, so long as I didn't have to work closely (ie not SD) with other adults. I have those 13 kids all day, we eat together, go out to break together etc. That reduces all of our viral load.

When is the right time to open schools though? The only logical answer is when we have a vaccine or treatment. As that could be a year plus away that length of time is unsustainable.

I see a lot on here saying September but we are not going to have a vaccine by then. Yes we may know more about the virus, but unlikely a treatment or vaccine.

Other countries are coming out of lockdown now, so we watch and work out a plan based on that. I don't trust the government but we cannot sustain keeping children off indefinitely. And then what if we get a vaccine and then millions refuse to have it because it's been "rushed" and "unsafe"? This could go on for years.

PPE for teachers and staff at the very least.

Which they said at yesterday’s briefing wasn’t necessary for school staff.

When you start with the government deciding that, it’s no wonder staff are a little concerned.

What if everyone in school is tested once a week.
If temperatures are taken daily on the way in, staff and children.
We need the testing capability to make this work.

I think that schools either go back or they don’t- you have to accept that there is a small level of risk for everyone in society now who has not yet had coronavirus but that we cannot stop living and ruin the education and economy for all the to young generations by stating inside and being paid by the government forever like one big, over-cautious holiday.
The 2 meter rule is just an arbitrary figure with very little actual science behind it, so I’m not sure that this will even be continued.
There will have to be extra reminders about hand hygiene but realistically by being in a class together any respiratory viruses will get passed around whether or not you sit two meters apart or not.
Teachers, like other people who have had to go to work through this and everyone else in the country who has to go back to work soon, will have to accept a small level of risk that they may get it and an even smaller level of risk that they will get it seriously. If you get rid of the hysteria then if you’re a healthy teacher, under 50, your risk of serious illness is fortunately very small.
Or you could resign and get a different job?
Children need to go to school.

The risk to children from coronavirus is miniscule. I would imagine there are much higher rates of death or serious injury from being at home playing on the trampoline.

Or to facilitate a longer school day which would allow, for example, two almost full-day sittings for children. So half school arrives at 8:30 and leaves at 13:00, the rest arrive at 13:30 and leave at 18:00

That's a reasonable idea. What I don't think is a good one is half days within the current 6 hour day. Dropping kids off, going to work, coming back to collect etc all within 3 and a half hours isn't really very useful.

If we can return with an acceptance that social distancing will be minimal and a focus on keeping the children safe and happy but without educational expectations then I'm happy to go back any time.

Me too. If we can go back and do projects or something, that's cool. There are going to be children in and out left right and centre with 'isolating' after a cough, or an ill grown up at home and so on. Reducing educational expectations is a given (I hope).

Other countries are coming out of lockdown now, so we watch and work out a plan based on that

Hardly any other countries are opening up schools yet though, so we can’t watch that.

I think the possibility of losing your home if you can’t work would be obviously terrifying and BUT I do think a lot of emphasis is being put on schools reopening to ‘fix’ this when actually there needs to be a much more comprehensive approach from the government - especially if schools are going to be providing patchy provision for a couple of months.

Schools open from 9-3 is not actually going to achieve much.

I think we’ll go back, start with attempts at social distancing and realise it’s impossible, lots of handwashing and parents queuing like at supermarkets to collect children.
Packed lunches only, eaten in class or outside if the weather is reasonable. Sanitising surfaces at break, lunchtime and after school/before school.
Teachers may wear masks. Or be behind screens, realise it’s impossible to teach or maintain discipline like that and give up.
Any cleaning equipment will probably be provided by teachers as government stock will be available ASAP. Probably showing up around April.
Shielding children will stay at home. Supply teachers will make a fortune as staff shield. Adults involved in the system will show increased rates of infection and death.
There will be no clapping for teaching staff.

What do staff and students with serious health conditions do now to limit the risk of eg contracting chicken pox or norovirus or the common cold? For example, those who've had a transplant?

I also think the age of the pupils and the setting makes a big difference. For example, sixth form colleges would only need to accommodate 50% of students if they reopen in June because the A level students have gone.

As for not sending your kids back until there's a vaccine - people really need to get past the idea that there will be an effective and safe vaccine any time soon. Or, if you are going to keep your children at home indefinitely you will have to deregister and take home-schooling seriously. Is that even an option for most if you have to earn money to eat and keep a roof over your head?

The trouble with schools opening longer, is that many teachers have small kids too. If I'm in.work.until 6, i need provision until 7.

I would like schools to re-open when it's advised, and I would trust people who are experts in these sorts of things to make these decisions.

I work in public health, but infection control isn't my area. But there are lots of smart people who can support policy in this area. The reality is though that there will be continued waves, and we can't all stay in our houses for the next 2 years. There will be times when it will be safer to go about somewhat normal life and times when it won't, and it will be important to make the most of the normalcy when it's possible, both for people's mental health, for the protection of children who may need to be safeguarded, and also for social and economic growth. This makes it more likely that people will be able to adhere to restrictions when they are in place again.

Teachers, like other people who have had to go to work through this

Like teachers you mean. Most teachers been going to school in some capacity.

Talking to friends who aren't teachers/other key workers, and who have been at home throughout, getting deliveries and things, they are definitely more scared in general of reduction to lockdown restrictions. They were scared into staying home, and it's going to take awhile to unscare them. If you've been out and about through no choice of your own, you might have started off a bit scared, then just got on with it. Especially if you have no one at home who is vulnerable or sheilding.

I started off staying away from home after my first 2 days on the school rota. Did a week in a flat above my parent's garage - not seeing them, they are sheilding - but to be away from my family.

The next week I washed all my clothes and myself the minute I arrived home.

The next week I washed my hands.

So it's a gradual process of unscaring.