Concerns about track and trace app. *title edited by MNHQ at OP's request*

[TooTrueToBeGood]

I've just watched Matt Hancock on BBC breakfast and much of the interview was about the soon-to-be-released contact tracing app.

According to MH, all data about who you have been in contact with will be entirely stored on your phone, no data will be sent to some central NHS/Govt database. He stressed several times that no data would be sent to a central system.

Here's how he describes the system working, as I understood him. When an individual finds out they have symptoms, they tell the app on their phone that they are symptomatic. The app then alerts the NHS and the user is sent a test kit. The app also alerts everyone the user has been in contact with that they may have been infected and they too are sent a test kit.

How is this really going to work in practice? Obviously from a privacy point of view people should be reassured that their location and social contact data is not being sent to the govt (though many will not believe that) . However, we are relying on individuals acting timeously when they are advised they may be infected, rather than direct NHS/govt intervention to isolate them. How many people will dilly-dally and go about their business infecting others for a few days until they get the test results?

More importantly, how many people, especially those who are anxious about infection, will figure out that if they dishonestly tell the app they have symptoms, then they and all their friends and family will get sent a test kit? That will just cause mayhem.

did anyone else who saw the interview interpret what he was telling us differently?

www.theregister.co.uk/2020/05/05/uk_coronavirus_app/ has some interesting info about the awake/sleep issue. I've not been able to verify how accurate it is.

Bol87 “ Just have it, in fact you’ve probably already got it from Facebook, Insta, Twitter, Mumsnet and all the millions of other apps & forums I subscribe too!”

Some of us don’t have this at all, or on our phones.

It just feels too 'Cambridge analytica' too 'Dominic Cummings' too tech giants milking us for data that they can use to enrich themselves further

Wow just registered for it. You have to add your passport, download a short video of yourself, enter your address and date of birth. Why would they need that? Well that makes my choice easy I'm not sending videos of myself.

I would love to know why the IOW was chosen. Wouldn't their population be less tech savy and less likely to opt out?

I won’t be downloading.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/tech.newstatesman.com/coronavirus/palantir-covid19-datastore-coronavirus/amp

There are many flaws in this system so it's not even foolproof for those who download the app. One that came to my mind was what happens with people who work in places where they can't have their phones on them whilst working. Eg. My DB works in a job where security forbids mobiles being taken in to the work environment. I volunteer in a school 1 day a week. All visitors mobiles are handed in at reception or left in cars/at home. Teachers phones will be locked away in cupboards/lockers and not about their body.

I would love to know why the IOW was chosen. Wouldn't their population be less tech savy and less likely to opt out?

Presumably it's easy to cross reference "app" data with travel data ? Most travel being done on a ferry, some by plane and a rare few by private boat.

And frankly, if you can swim it, you probably don't need the "app" anyway.

One that came to my mind was what happens with people who work in places where they can't have their phones on them whilst working.

I would also hope that includes any call centre. Or anywhere where personal details are visible on screens.

I would love to know why the IOW was chosen

because it's a small, self-contained population.

In my office, anybody working on certain floor plates needs to lock their phones away for security purposes so it wouldn’t be useful.

How does it work for people who work in hospitals when they are caring for Covid19 patients?

@DGRossetti it’s not just a passport, you can use a driving license, EU ID card but you do have to have some sort of proof of identification added to your login details with a photo.

I can see people’s temperature’s being taken before you enter a building and the details being uploaded onto your app.

@DGRossetti it’s not just a passport, you can use a driving license, EU ID card but you do have to have some sort of proof of identification added to your login details with a photo.

So the poorer people in society - predominantly women - are excluded.

I guess it was never going to be any other way.

I work in IT and greatly enjoyed the interview this morning. Pure codswallop.

What next, if you don’t have the app you can’t use public transport? Go out to eat? Go to the shops?

What if you don’t have a smart phone?

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8283619/amp/Australians-dont-coronavirus-tracking-app-venues-details-diners.html

“Mr Lambert, who is hopeful eateries can reopen in June, put forward a range of new rules designed to ensure venues comply with safety protocols amid the global pandemic.

Among the suggestions was a 'sign in' order for customers who do not have the government's coronavirus tracking app.”

Given that the governement gave the contract to a mate of Dominic Cummins and didnt look to tech companies like google or apple then its a big fat no from me.
I have seen governement involvement in Tech and IT in the NHS over the past 30 years to know that its always half arsed and usually has massive user problems, because they buy cheap instead of whats needed for the job.
Also it is annoying me that they are calling it a NHS app. it has nothing to do with the NHS its a private firm. They are using the NHS logo to try and get people on board with downloading it. Along with telling us to do our duty.

So it asks for your address, date of birth, photo ID, and a video recording of you.

Is there anyone reading who has used an equivalent app in another country? If so, what personal data did it request when you signed up?

The passport and video is an identification system (I used something similar recently when I got a Monzo bank account)

When Bluetooth is on your phone sends out little connections all the time looking for Bluetooth things you have authorised (fitbit/headphones etc) I assume the app uses this, and allocated a unique identifier to the signal. It then records where you were in relation to other people who are also broadcasting their Bluetooth signal.

When you say you now have symptoms, it calculates which other identifiers you were in contact with, and alerts them (identifying them through the unique indentifier). It doesn't tell you who they are, or tell them it was you you were in contact with.

So basically we are a bunch of dots traveling around and interacting, one of those dots becomes a beacon, and the app alerts relevant dots.

I've no idea of the actual design, but I do worry about the data and privacy issues. The government and NHS are not known for good IT procurement.

When you go on Google maps or aa route finder you can see if there is a traffic jam or slowing traffic, it comes up as red. This uses your phone, so I presume will just work in the same way.

The government’s coronavirus contact tracing app has so far failed the tests needed to be included in the NHS app library, HSJ understands.

The app is being trialled on the Isle of Wight this week, ahead of a national rollout later this month. Senior NHS sources told HSJ it had thus far failed all of the tests required for inclusion in the app library, including cyber security, performance and clinical safety.

There are also concerns at high levels about how users’ privacy will be protected once they log that they have coronavirus symptoms, and become “traceable”, and how this information will be used.

Senior figures told HSJ that it had been hard to assess the app because the government was “going about it in a kind of a hamfisted way. They haven’t got clear versions, so it’s been impossible to get fixed code base from them for NHS Digital to test. They keep changing it all over the place”.

www.hsj.co.uk/technology-and-innovation/exclusive-wobbly-tracing-app-failed-clinical-safety-and-cyber-security-tests/7027564.article

link to above article

If HSJ has the right of it then it will fail the pilot... and they'll have to go to Google or Apple. In a sane world!

We can only wait and watch (and have the I Told You So's to hand)

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-tests-contact-tracing-serco-g4s-private-firm-a9497371.html%3famp

“It emerged that Serco – and probably other giant contractors such as G4S – will carry out most of the contact tracing work, by recruiting 15,000 call centre staff.

Last year, the outsourcing giant was fined £19.2m by the Serious Fraud Office as part of a settlement over an electronic tagging scandal, also paying £3.7m in costs.

Both Serco and G4S were accused of charging the government for electronically monitoring people who were either dead, in jail, or had left the country.”

So my ID is being checked at the moment, I take it they then email you to say it has been verified. You also get a code 4 digit number, text to your phone to login with.