Concerns about track and trace app. *title edited by MNHQ at OP's request*

[TooTrueToBeGood]

I've just watched Matt Hancock on BBC breakfast and much of the interview was about the soon-to-be-released contact tracing app.

According to MH, all data about who you have been in contact with will be entirely stored on your phone, no data will be sent to some central NHS/Govt database. He stressed several times that no data would be sent to a central system.

Here's how he describes the system working, as I understood him. When an individual finds out they have symptoms, they tell the app on their phone that they are symptomatic. The app then alerts the NHS and the user is sent a test kit. The app also alerts everyone the user has been in contact with that they may have been infected and they too are sent a test kit.

How is this really going to work in practice? Obviously from a privacy point of view people should be reassured that their location and social contact data is not being sent to the govt (though many will not believe that) . However, we are relying on individuals acting timeously when they are advised they may be infected, rather than direct NHS/govt intervention to isolate them. How many people will dilly-dally and go about their business infecting others for a few days until they get the test results?

More importantly, how many people, especially those who are anxious about infection, will figure out that if they dishonestly tell the app they have symptoms, then they and all their friends and family will get sent a test kit? That will just cause mayhem.

did anyone else who saw the interview interpret what he was telling us differently?

It's not the bluetooth you need to be querying, that's how it works, how they all work! Ananymised data is collected and only activated once someone calls in to say they have symptoms.

If you want to find a catch in the system you have to make up your own mind about who you want to have yet more data on you the government, Apple or Google.

I have managed not to have any location devices switched on so Google and Apple had little on me until I became self employed and had to swicth on some location tracking to use a business App. But the government, well, they already know where I live, who I live with, how I earn a living etc.

It's all Privacy Poison, you just have to wonder who will be marginally safer!

George Soros and the Open Society Foundation in conjucntion with a brand new, so new our website is a landing page, litigations service, AWO, say they are looking at our best interests... but they too are open to scrutiny and mistrust!

It will only contact people you have been within a certain distance from for a certain length of time - you both have the app (which is why a high percentage need to download it). Otherwise it will be contacting dozens if you happen to have been in a supermarket etc.
Its voluntary, and presumably if you download the app you are capable and agreeing to using it properly, otherwise why download it?
The while point of trailing it is to see whether it works and to make improvements. People complain the government aren't doing enough then complain when they do try to do something.

I couldn’t care less how the app works, I don’t understand the fuss about data. Just have it, in fact you’ve probably already got it from Facebook, Insta, Twitter, Mumsnet and all the millions of other apps & forums I subscribe too!

What needs to be clearer is how it will work in reality.. if you get an alert, do you automatically have to self isolate? This could surely happen pretty much every week in theory?! Once we are not totally locked down? Are people’s workplaces going to accept a week off ‘sick’ because the app has said you need to isolate? What about offices, you could get an entire team of people needing to isolate because of one person.. etc etc.. 🤔

Google knows my bra size (probably), if you use a nectar card or similar, Sainsbury's will know when your period is due and therefore if you're likely to be pregnant and advertise to you accordingly, Amazon knows how much toilet paper and cat food we get through a month.

I sold my soul for the sake of convenience a long time ago.

George Soros

Ah, an anti Jewish conspiracy theory. That's all we need.

OP, why don't you report your thread to MNHQ and ask for it to be re-named so that you don't look like such a twat?

Why would you assume I haven't already done that? I made a mistake and did what I could to rectify it quickly.

Clearly you didn't watch the interview properly or are hard of understanding. That doesn't mean you need to show your ignorance to the whole MN word.

Well why don't you enlighten me with your greater understanding then? If you're only interest in posting to this thread is to insult me then I suggest you reconsider who is the real twat.

Agree with earlier poster. Isle of Wight sounds like a suitable place to pilot but it’s not going to work. Appalling signal coverage, many elderly, many without smartphones, lots won’t download.
Eighty percent of the people dialling into island radio isn’t exactly a large cohort agreeing to use it.
Its more spin than substance and as it’s not aligned to international apps isn’t much use for travel abroad. Too many human factors for it to work effectively.

At the present time there isn’t a one answer to this disaster. All we can do is use anything that might help in the hope that various tactics used together will mitigate the problem.

Ah, an anti Jewish conspiracy theory. That's all we need Do you mean me? Nope! Just the usual healthy scepticism around anyone with a large amount of money getting involved in politics.

I hate to tell you but I hadn't even considered the man as an individual, let alone thought about his religion. Just pondered the reaons for squillionaires in one country getting involved it the politics of another country.

Based on my last holiday to Isle of Wight a few years ago I would be astounded if enough people have decent enough signal to upload any contact data to the central database.

Perhaps Connectivity on IofW has improved since my visit.

Isle of Wight sounds like a suitable place to pilot but it’s not going to work. Appalling signal coverage, many elderly, many without smartphones, lots won’t download.
Eighty percent of the people dialling into island radio isn’t exactly a large cohort agreeing to use it.
Its more spin than substance and as it’s not aligned to international apps isn’t much use for travel abroad. Too many human factors for it to work effectively.

All of which are reasons they chose it. It's pointless choosing the perfect place to test something! Remember T+T is not just the app!

as it’s not aligned to international apps isn’t much use for travel abroad

Is there any reason not to have more than one such app on your phone at the same time if you travel? - either both active or just switch off the nhs one when you leave the U.K. and turn on the other?

My main concern is there's so much naysaying - quite a lot of objections which seem on examination to be spurious or ignorant- that there won't be sufficient take up for the app to have much useful effect.

I am vaguely concerned our app won't be acceptable to the rest of the world if they all go with the google model. We always have to be different - the whole feet, inches, thing all over again but this time to set out deliberately to be different makes little sense

Re battery. That's hopeful if it only uses a small percentage. Mine is pretty lame though. It lasts til about 10-11am on a good day without recharge. I'm not rushing to buy a new phone to get an app for a virus I have had already anyway. Half my colleagues at work don't actually own smartphones, which I can't get my head round, but it's true. Will it work on those £20 phones do you think? I might get a clean phone for that

• I would be astounded if enough people have decent enough signal to upload any contact data to the central database.

I would expect that - as with text messages - the upload doesn't have to be immediate, and I'd guess the amount of data is quite small.

I am vaguely concerned our app won't be acceptable to the rest of the world if they all go with the google model.

Why does that matter?

Instead of speculating why don’t we a.l just wait and see how it works as it’s a trial

Hancock has form for lying, he said the UK was part of the EU procurement program when it wasn't and said he'd hit a target of 100k tests but hadn't either, we are now down in the low 70k region now, is that even enough for any app to work?

The app uses a ID to communicate with a central DB, how on earth would it work if the data is just stored on your phone??
no other app used around the world uses this approach as local db is quicker, more secure and more appropriate for most people.

There is a working app used in europe now that we could use but for some strange reason, despite Johnson calling for co-operation on CV we won't, probably because of Brexit.

As Cherry just said, won't be compatible with international app's, if we don't take part in international app's, would there be a UK language version to download?

Errol That's sensible, stop it!

I dislike data gathering servcies, loyalty cards etc. I don't use them My choice.

I though about the App and had a read about how it would work. I doubt I will use it as, even in normal times, I only have very limited contact with people, maybe 2 or 3 a day, for less than 5 minutes at a time. I work alone and only live with DH. He may well have it as he works differently.

But I will keep up to date with it and, if the tracing criteria change I will rethink. Sensibly that's what we all have to do! Regardless of who runs the bloody thing!

My only knowledge is from the section on the Channel 4 news the other day, but it did seem from that that the key difference between the Apple/Google apps that countries like Germany are planning to use and the UK government version is that the Apple and Google ones do not store centralised data and the UK government does.

It seems odd that the UK would not piggy-back onto something already in development that is widely used, like Google, where data is only stored on the phone and could be used internationally.

Also on the Channel 4 news item they interviewed a man who I think used to be high who said that every single IT project headed by the NHS in the past two decades or so has been a complete disaster and he didn't foresee this being any different!

used to be high up in the NHS that should say.

I travel abroad a lot. I'm vaguely concerned (not enough detail on this yet, I am just 'sigh' to our 'exceptionalism') that unless we have been running the app the rest of Europe goes with, for instance, we are not going to be allowed in without quarantine. Then we realise that and so need to ditch the first app at great cost or run both apps. I really wish my country wasn't so shit and amateur but there we go.

Realise that all of us are monitored through our social media data but not sure happy to provide more data to this particular government especially as Dominic Cummings is lurking in the background.
Matt Hancock already trying the right wing language of it being "our duty"

I don't think wait and see works very well in the UK. Generally all problems are predicted very far in advance but as the populace insists on sticking with 'wait and see' 'they know best' we end up in entirely predictable billion pound farces. Perhaps we should all be a bit more vocal.

As Cherry just said, won't be compatible with international app's, if we don't take part in international app's, would there be a UK language version to download?

Other countries are going to use the Google one... is that a serious question?