Concerns about track and trace app. *title edited by MNHQ at OP's request*

[TooTrueToBeGood]

I've just watched Matt Hancock on BBC breakfast and much of the interview was about the soon-to-be-released contact tracing app.

According to MH, all data about who you have been in contact with will be entirely stored on your phone, no data will be sent to some central NHS/Govt database. He stressed several times that no data would be sent to a central system.

Here's how he describes the system working, as I understood him. When an individual finds out they have symptoms, they tell the app on their phone that they are symptomatic. The app then alerts the NHS and the user is sent a test kit. The app also alerts everyone the user has been in contact with that they may have been infected and they too are sent a test kit.

How is this really going to work in practice? Obviously from a privacy point of view people should be reassured that their location and social contact data is not being sent to the govt (though many will not believe that) . However, we are relying on individuals acting timeously when they are advised they may be infected, rather than direct NHS/govt intervention to isolate them. How many people will dilly-dally and go about their business infecting others for a few days until they get the test results?

More importantly, how many people, especially those who are anxious about infection, will figure out that if they dishonestly tell the app they have symptoms, then they and all their friends and family will get sent a test kit? That will just cause mayhem.

did anyone else who saw the interview interpret what he was telling us differently?

I'm old, not tech savvy, have a smart phone but use it as a phone and occasionally switch on mobile data if I want to check and e mail or something when I'm out. Never used bluetooth.

Some expert was on newsnight last night and saying they could have used a system where it was stored on your phone and not centralised. Made me wonder what they are up to. I'm not sure if I will use it, never used an app so I don't even know about doing it.

On another note -Kier Starmer is a monumental twat. Whereas you can't even spell his name.

I read something yesterday that says we would need to keep our phones unlocked.

That sounds unlikely to be true. I'm pretty sure Bluetooth communications work when your phone is locked. Eg if I'm away from home and using Bluetooth so my iPad can use its 4g instead of insecure hotel WiFi (we are a family who takes e-security very seriously) , the phone doesn't need to stay unlocked.

It's not the one thing, no, but we'll see it's utility. I treat all interaction as an infection potential and take the precautions I can. I hope everyone will need to wear a mouth/nose covering and maintain personal distance and good respiratory hygiene. I'm not sure I would want to use this app unless it is shown to be effective. I don't think I would be alone in that.

I don't trust Matt Hancock at all. A few weeks ago he lied when he said the PPE problem was because of distribution. Last week he congratulated himself on reaching his target for testing when 30 000 tests had just been sent not used. How can he expect the public to believe a word he says?

Won't it cause havoc if you have a few people who panic at every sniffle? I've got one in my family, panics about everything, every headache is brain tumour, bit breathless carrying shopping up hill - well that must be lung cancer. Hope they don't get it.

Made me wonder what they are up to.

What they're up to is wanting anonymised data that can be analysed to get a better idea about the characteristics of spread. Eg if 'superspreaders' exist - but not actually knowing who or where they are. It would be useful... but, I'm afraid people's skepticism means it's a good idea which won't bear fruit.

I think Matt Hancock is out of his depth, he always reminds me of one of those kids who hovers round the big boys trying to join in but being laughed at.

And no, I don't want to know of symptomatic people as the symptoms are highly variable and many can be other viruses/hay fever and I don't want to be alarmed without cause. A positive PCR result would be a different thing.

People need to understand how it works before slating it

No.

People need to understand it before choosing to use it ...

So if a teenager goes into the app and says they are symptomatic in a busy school corridor or classroom. .. Then presumably everyone in the class will need to isolate because xx thought it was a laugh

I would be a lot more comfortable with an apple/google version, rather than the centralised model the government have chosen (not put out to tender, just given to Cummings' mates). So it's a No from me. Of course it's presented as our 'patriotic duty' to use it!

Questioning is not slating, it is looking for answers

So if a teenager goes into the app and says they are symptomatic

Howabout a totally fit and healthy teenager (or gang of teenagers) pretending they are symptomatic just for lolz ?

Or, $1,000 worth of Russian hackers for that matter ?

Wow just registered for it. You have to add your passport, download a short video of yourself, enter your address and date of birth.

So if a teenager goes into the app and says they are symptomatic in a busy school corridor or classroom. .. Then presumably everyone in the class will need to isolate because xx thought it was a laugh Yep! And oh so many things daft kids could do!

Or maybe with under 18s there will be other checks and measures in place! You know, common sense (god forbid!)

You have to add your passport,

So if you don't have a passport, tough shit ?

How about a non-UK passport ?

hang on, I've just seen a wheel roll past my window ...

It is not meant to cover everyone. It does not rely on being used by everyone. It is not the only strand of protection, not even the only strand of track and trace!

I won't be using it. Here's an article about some of the problems: www.theregister.co.uk/AMP/2020/05/05/uk_coronavirus_app

Given the involvement of Dominic Cummings' pals, I'm also worried about mission creep. What will the government decide it's 'proportionate' to do?

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/13/nhs-coronavirus-app-memo-discussed-giving-ministers-power-to-de-anonymise-users

techcrunch.com/2020/04/28/uks-coronavirus-contacts-tracing-app-could-ask-users-to-share-location-data/

That little line about 'duty' bothered me too. I consider it my duty not to unthinkingly support the creation of a surveillance state because this current crisis frightens me.

It isn't the data so much that bothers me, I use social media and other forums. The issue is when ministers describe it as a 'bit wobbly' you have an issue. It has been rushed out, by a friend of a friend and it is not cyber secure. It wouldn't usually be allowed to fly in that state and there is absolutely no way I will download it. I am acutely aware of cyber security and the lack of it in this app. It is pretty well documented to be fair.

I think you do need to keep your phone unlocked to use it if you use IOS.

thank you for the links Miriel

I think you do need to keep your phone unlocked to use it if you use IOS.

So a flood of unlocked iPhones is about to engulf Britain ?

Thieves ! Get ready ! You know what to do !!!!

having read posts on this thread I'm starting to wonder if they deliberately chose the Isle of Wight knowing that the take-up would be insufficient so as to give them ground to them mothball the idea?

With articles like this in the IOW press, doubt if many will be bothering to install the app.

The UK public’s right to privacy could become “another casualty” of coronavirus through the use of a contact-tracing app, Amnesty International UK has warned.

www.countypress.co.uk/news/national/18425991.privacy-concerns-remain-contact-tracing-app-amnesty-international-uk-says/