University Fees for on-line Lectures

[Kastanien]

Latest this morning(sorry if it is already on here, I checked and could not see a thread)
www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-52506283

Just wondering how those of you with DC due to start (or return to Uni) in the Autumn feel about full tuition fees for on-line learning?
I feel there should be a reduction as the teaching is not the same on-line as face to face.

When Lecturers do not turn up for tutorials for a whole academic year
but are married to the HoD
students are a bit screwed

when they have their labs taken away as well
and emails go unanswered
defending that is not a cool move

Has any academic on this thread defended that? We don't like that sort of corruption, as it tars us all with that same brush. That is when students should use every avenue possible to complain.

They should start with the Staff-Student Department liaison committee, and their student union or guild. They should go to the Dean, if it is the HoD they wish to complain about, or to their Departmental Director of Education.

Then, there are even higher levels of making a complaint. No decent academic condones that sort of bad behaviour - if it is evidenced, not just gossip. And I haven't seen any one of the academics posting on this thread suggesting that they would/do condone such behaviour.

I work for a university PT as a lecturer and have in the past taught their online courses. They are very different entities. Unis won't need to restructure their courses to become more like online models; they'll need to find a way of delivering online something as close to 'live' teaching as possible. DC's school have been doing this with great success.

there's no reason a uni can't deliver a lecture online then offer live seminars and tutorials via Teams or Zoom. Students can email their work to be marked. This is far trickier for lab-based subjects but if lab-based students are given priority for on-site teaching and Humanities students stay online, it could be workable.

I was discussing this with DC today who are both due to start uni in Autumn. They both agreed they'd rather learn online than mooch about on a gap year in which they'd be unable to travel and unlikely find work.

Also, deferring (even assuming unis will allow mass deferral, which is unlikely) will only lead to next year's students having a far harder time getting offers as fewer places would be available.

No one on here has defended that in the slightest, Listening. In fact, academics on here consistently tell people that they have the right to, and should, complain. Do you think that we like our colleagues taking the piss, leaving us with more work, and affecting the public perception of what we do? I can assure you we don't. As Cat has said, there will be clear institutional procedures for complaints if the Head of Department is part of the problem.

listening it's good for the new uni parents to hear this. Some here are still waiting to send their DC off this autumn. Lots of hopes and aspirations in the wings.

They need to be aware of such experiences. It's a disappointing reality that their DC might be faced with.

Nobody said you were lying brass
We were offering our (vast) experience but explaining you should complain.

You, on the other hand, refuse to believe that there might be an alternative version of your son's version of events.

listening that is outrageous and shouldn't be condoned.
It is very rare these days though.

It's great that you're persisting in the way you are. More info for new parents/students.

You seem utterly incapable of validating my experience without saying it didn't happen in the next breath. There isn't another version of events. That's the whole point. This is our experience end of.

parents being uninformed and students lying or misconstruing their experience

Thing is, brass sometimes parents are uninformed and their DC are economical with the truth.

Look at this way, I've been teaching since I was a postgrad - it's over 30 years of experience. 1000s of students. It is very likely I will know more about the generality of parental and student behaviour than any one parent, with maybe 3 DC going through university.

As a prospective parent I am hoping to know some detailed info in aug about what/how the course will be offered and then I imagine dd will ‘shop around’ - she had 5 offers. It will be interesting to see if all unis take the same path eg all online/partially open or whatever.

I'll say it again as you seem to not want to listen brass nobody has says it didn't happen. We are simply offering our vast experience in dealing with these issues.

You also need to remember your DS is an adult and universities expect a significant amount of autonomy and independent study. Has you DS requested a tutorial?

newgirls universities simply don't know what will happen in September but we are planning for all possible scenarios.....thus creating a shit load of work.
As soon as we know we'll pass this on to students.

As a prospective parent I am hoping to know some detailed info in aug about what/how the course will be offered and then I imagine dd will ‘shop around’ - she had 5 offers.

It might also be worth considering what/how each course will be offered beyond the first term. It is like to have more of an influence on her education in the long term.

is likely

It's worth mentioning though that the most likely scenario with will partially online with some attendance.
Remember too, there's a difference between an online course ( which has been designed this way from the outset) and a course being adapted for remote delivery. This will involve face to face even it's over zoom or whatever.

🙄🥳

I teach on two different post graduate degrees at two good universities and reliever both online and on campus. It’s different but we work hard to ensure it’s the same standard as the graduates will have MSc after their name whether they were on campus or distance. And I can promise it takes me exactly as long to prepare teach and mark online as it does in person.

Roll your eyes all you likebrass but it's a point worth considering.
It's all good and well saying the uni hadn't been in touch but has your DS instigated contact?

If he has and it's been ignored then you've grounds for complaint.
In my university all complaints are taken seriously - there's no closing ranks. If you've not done your job properly it is addressed.
Failing academics and departments are not tolerated.

Also, I know I've mentioned this already but there is often very little teaching in the summer term.
It's likely that's he's not missed out on much anyway.

@PhoneLock - can they shop around as late as august? I thought they had to firm up their offers to a deadline that's quite soon, in order to secure halls etc.

I completed an online MSc in January. Same level of staff support and supervision, same learning material (arguably better as you can pause online lectures), same qualification. Same fees.

ellanwood clearing happens in August which is now an increasingly common way of securing a place at uni.

I don’t expect unis to know in May but by Aug I think it will be clearer. Earlier reassurance than Aug would be welcome but not expected

Yes clearing in Aug will be very interesting with fewer international students. Statement from ucas yesterday (posted elsewhere) gives guidance on this, capping of places etc