University Fees for on-line Lectures

[Kastanien]

Latest this morning(sorry if it is already on here, I checked and could not see a thread)
www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-52506283

Just wondering how those of you with DC due to start (or return to Uni) in the Autumn feel about full tuition fees for on-line learning?
I feel there should be a reduction as the teaching is not the same on-line as face to face.

We will have absolutely need to have made a decision by August. Most academics are on leave during August....we need time to plan!

I work in University complaints. We don't want to steal from your children. We don't want to promise something we can't deliver. We don't know what will happen, but we're doing our best. We're not there to make a profit - we don't have shareholders that cream off money. We can't deliver services without adequate financial renumeration - who do you think should pay? We're not sitting on reserves that we can use instead.

It's not fair for your DCs to face this uncertainty. I'm really sorry that things are so messy. We can't magically unmake this situation. I hope they'll thrive in adversity and be an unbeatable generation. I'm sorry if we're portrayed as the enemy when people chose this work because they want your children to fly.

Ah - when do you think the ‘deadline’ for decision making will be?

That’s a lovely post biblio

My uni is preparing for online only as a plan B for the autumn term, but not beyond that. As somebody said above, online only still includes face-to-face, only it's faces on screens.

Not yet anyway.

I think they should just open in October as usual and let people sign waivers and take the risk.

I'm not sure of a deadline at this stage .....in the last week all course leaders at my uni have been asked to prepare a plan for all possible scenarios. Initially this to is to highlight any potential problem courses or modules as some aren't a natural fit for online / blended learning. I suspect that once we get more information from Boris about how lockdown will be lifted we can then start to make more concrete plans.

I think one reason academics are getting frustrated with some people's perceptions that were lacking and letting down students is that the vast majority of us are working hard to support them more than we'd be expected to. We know this is a tricky time for everyone and we're making allowances for that. We want our students to succeed it's important to us.

DS' university had strikes before the lockdown due to this - he hasn't had proper face to face teaching in a long time. But he's still expected to pay £9,000 in tuition.

Yep. My DD is in her final year. Every one of her years has been disrupted due to strike action. This academic year there were strikes before Christmas and then strikes again from February which ran straight into these closures from Covid. In this academic year, so October until now, she's had ten weeks of tuition.

Before Easter the lectures were moved on line but she had no seminars and the library and resources were not available. Some of the library was available on line eventually, but not all.

She's been trying to finish her final essays which count towards her final classification but with no supervision and none of the usual academic input.

Maybe it will change for September but absolutely no way has she received a fair amount of tuition, support or facilities for the money she has paid this year, and now faces a degree classification lower than she might have reasonably expected.

Thanks v helpful to hear about the planning all scenarios

Xenia - A traffic light system is being discussed for work so possibly an option for students and teaching staff? Green if healthy/young/low risk etc

All this following strikes an unbelievable storm for so many students

My university has implemented a safety net policy so any assessment after March this year won’t be marked at a lower mark than the average of previous assessments. Not sure if other unis are doing the same.

Mine has also done this Jacob

Mine too

I'm sorry hearhooves that sounds horrific for a final year student. Your poor DD must be so stressed trying to accomplish anything in those circumstances. I'd totally forgotten about the strikes, that just makes this year a disaster 😭

I suppose I should be grateful that DS isn't final year.

The whole situation is horrendous for everyone. I would like though to know how on earth science and engineering students are meant to do labs and practicals online.
My dd is 2nd year nat sci and luckily this term has no labs but next term should have.
She has studied throughout the easter vac and now 'attending' every lecture and supervision. Supervisers really trying hard. There have though been instances of lectures having half missing and some being simply last years recording. Trouble with that is these recordings weren't intended as replacement for live but as back up if you missed lecture. We are presuming that as the situation goes on that new recordings will be made and made in a way that recognises the online learning.
Dd very anxious about 3rd year and how they can cover the content when the practical side is crucial.

My university has implemented a safety net policy so any assessment after March this year won’t be marked at a lower mark than the average of previous assessments. Not sure if other unis are doing the same.

Mine has done similar.

We also have a safety net policy.

Our VC has said that they expect to be able to announce plans for what a return to campus will look like once they have more information from government about easing the lockdown and about social distancing requirements. In about a week or so. Said the reason for the silence from the university is that they cannot start announcing plans until government makes national decisions.

The uni has a no detriment policy meaning that you won't get lower than the average mark for the year, as long as you pass each assessment, BUT how good an indicator are any of this year's assessments when you've had only ten weeks tuition over the whole year and only four weeks since January, plus none at all since February? She's had I think 5, 8,000 word essays to complete since the strikes started in February so that's more than half of this year's work completed under either strikes or lockdown, with no tuition and no library facilities since lockdown.

Any chance of her grades improving during this semester vanished a while ago.

That makes sense - I imagine gov position on distancing will change frequently though so I’m hoping sept looks more positive

I have one DC writing an essay now.
He is at a top 10 Russell Group university. Top 8 for his subject for which he required 3 As at A level.
End of 2nd year.
This term he is receiving nothing, absolutely nothing.
Lecturer has emailed all students to say content isn’t being put online and to email if anyone has any questions.
Exams are now open book.

Another of my DC is currently sorting out their deposit for a flat in Sept.
He is at a similar institution and is receiving 1 hour ‘tuition’ per week via Zoom and two 15 min telephone calls from lecturers this term.

Both humanities subjects.

They have both had significant disruption to their courses due to strike action.

We are paying for empty accommodation, never mind the tuition fees.
They are missing out on socialising and doing all the things that young people their age should be enjoying.

If the jaded and defensive academics on this thread cannot admit that this is a shit situation for students, then you are in the wrong job.
Yes, you’re under pressure. Hands up who isn’t at the moment ?
A little respect for your students, really wouldn’t go amiss.

My DC are enormously grateful and inspired by some of the outstanding academics who have taught and supported them but they are Incredibly disappointed by the university experience.
They love the subjects they chose, are self motivated and attended their lectures and seminars and contributed to them.

I feel so sorry for this generation of students.
All the young people, I know are putting their best foot forward, some of whom are in very challenging domestic and financial situations.

I say this with real sadness, but I really wouldn’t recommend a Humanities subject under the present circumstances.

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras - my son has been in a similar situation, lots of strike disruption, lots of labs missed, writing his dissertation with minimal supervisor contact in person (I think two meetings in all) and generally takes over a week to get a reply to an email, finals online starting this week, at the moment no graduation. There is a ‘no detriment’ policy which means he’s in line for a good classification, but that’s not really the only thing they go for.

At the other end of the scale my d is a first year medic. Currently doing first year exams which have been stressy because of problems with the platform not being robust enough for the number of students timetables to take exams at the same time. Placements cancelled, and a full teaching schedule for this term which was due to have practical sessions and group projects included will now be all online. She’s philosophical in that she’s got another five years to be a student.

None of it can be helped but you can’t help but feel for them

@HostessTrolley

I completely agree. We all know it can't be helped but I do think universities should be a bit more upfront about lack of support/provision and also how rubbish this is for students. For final year students it's all the more rubbish because this is the culmination of three years at uni and there's no chance to make it up, plus as you say, no graduation either.

I do feel very sorry for medical and nursing students and the like - they have practice hours that have to be completed before they qualify - how will they make those up?

Pickupthepieces - everyone who works at a university is hugely hugely sympathetic to the plight of their students, and particularly those (nonMN) kids from backgrounds where online learning is very difficult. Look at any of the threads in the Common Room, or those in HE discussing the current situation. It's unfair to imply otherwise. Many of us also have kids at uni - I have one first year and one about to graduate and start an MSc, both STEM, both gutted to be home rather than with their uni friends.

But you have to understand that in a thread suggesting fees are returned to the SLC, which will mean large scale university closures and large scale redundancies for the rest, we get a bit defensive. Particularly when posters talk about the massive reserves universities have, that they're businesses and students are customers, which is so far from the truth to be laughable.

And in England we now have even more regulation dumped on us which threatens admissions autonomy, limits recruitment numbers and possible retrospective large fines for those who responded to CV by making their offers unconditional. And ironically forbids us from reducing fees...

I think they should just open in October as usual and let people sign waivers and take the risk

Staff employed by universities don’t have that option and many staff are likely to be far more vulnerable to C-19 than 18 to 20 year olds.

GCA
No one on here has defended that in the slightest, Listening. In fact, academics on here consistently tell people that they have the right to, and should, complain
It should not be down to the students to chase up morally bankrupt behaviour by lecturers.
Students HAVE complained but the HoD ignores it
and the VC is too far up his own arse to care

THe fact that none of the academics on this thread seem to give a flying about labs and STEM subjects
speaks volumes

I do feel very sorry for medical and nursing students and the like - they have practice hours that have to be completed before they qualify - how will they make those up?

The only answer we can get regarding this (I'm on an allied health professions degree) is "we don't know". I'm working on the assumption the missed blocks of placements will randomly be dropped on us at short notice, with the usual university consideration for those with childcare issues (hah hah) and we'll just be told to suck it up if we want to qualify as registered.