University Fees for on-line Lectures

[Kastanien]

Latest this morning(sorry if it is already on here, I checked and could not see a thread)
www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-52506283

Just wondering how those of you with DC due to start (or return to Uni) in the Autumn feel about full tuition fees for on-line learning?
I feel there should be a reduction as the teaching is not the same on-line as face to face.

titchy

Sorry, what's ironic?

And remember everyone other than pubs etc is allowed to go to work and travel at work in any kind of business if they cannot work from home.

And gym staff. I didn't think gyms were allowed to open yet?

And remember everyone other than pubs etc is allowed to go to work and travel at work in any kind of business if they cannot work from home.

But many companies are telling staff to WFH. How does that fit with recruiting new interns etc? Do you apply and then just get told to work at home, without any training, orientation, knowing what to do?

You WFH but with training/orientation remotely.....it is possible to train and support people remotely. It's happening already.

People will need to adapt and be flexible but still possible to get a positive experience.

DH has a new starter to his team last week. Induction and meetings via Zoom, same as if the chap had started in the office. It's a bit awkward and different but a better than not recruiting for a whole year unless your hears dh's company looking to take on apprenxrices in which case fuck 'em

titchy

My husband's company works in customer's houses - they aren't doing that work now so how can they take apprentices on? They can't take people on and furlough them can they? Don't be ridiculous.

Oh I see. Your proposed solution for your child’s final year is actually that in March the universities should just have closed, sent everyone home, and refunded the non-used portion of the semester’s tuition, no final grade given at all, no graduation, as it wasn’t possible to run face to face programming?
If your child’s university had treated their students the same way as your dh’s company had treated their otherwise internship intake, you would have been fine with that?
In essence, that’s what my setting did. (We are non-parchment). As ever, most people understood, wished us well, stay safe etc, but one or two three an almighty tantrum.
I really admire the entire education sector for gritting their teeth and doing the best for degree students. Absolutely amazing, every single one. There is a single institution that isn’t trying their best. There might be some mis-steps, but on a human level, there are superhuman efforts being made every single day to support young adults. It’s bloody amazing.

enragedpenfold

Do what?

It isn't my husband's company, it's the company he works for so it's not his choice what happens, nor was it the company's choice. It wasn't safe to go into customer's houses so they can't work.

The apprenticeship programme is suspended - so new apprentices aren't being recruited. What should they do? Take them on and then gave them sit at home?

There's a big difference between curtailing a three year course, that someone has already spent nigh on £30,000 on, and not allowing them to start a new training course .

I would have no problem with the university telling prospective students that they can't start come September. I don't really have a problem with first and second years being suspended in March, as long as steps are taken to catch up lost time. I do have a huge problem with students in their final couple of months, approaching final exams, completing dissertations that will impact on their degree classification just being abandoned. That potentially is three years work and three years money in peril.

I really admire the entire education sector for gritting their teeth and doing the best for degree students.

Well I'd admire them too if they'd actually done this.

What would you have done then hear?

How could we have continued face to face teaching when to government told us to close our campuses. You've been given a number of different scenarios by people actually doing the job but none of them meet your approval. So over to you.....

Are you actually saying that every single academic and university has done nothing??..... because that's how your last post reads.

I do have a huge problem with students in their final couple of months, approaching final exams, completing dissertations that will impact on their degree classification just being abandoned. That potentially is three years work and three years money in peril.

I'd have a problem with that too. Fortunately that hasn't happened. Students will graduate, grades protected. Phew! Remember this thread is about the response to CV19. Not the strikes (there's other threads for those).

Are you actually saying that every single academic and university has done nothing??..... because that's how your last post reads.

No, where did I say that? The post I disagreed with said that the entire education sector has done their best for degree students - that isn't true. Some academics on this thread have said it's been variable and some students have been let down. So, why aren't you pulling that poster up to say that not every institution has done their best by every student?

As for what should they have done - I answered this earlier on.

They should have made sure a full timetable was provided on line, resources made freely available to all students on line, full support from staff available, proper extensions given on work (why only two weeks? Why not extend into this term?) Provide equipment and internet access to students who don't have it, offer students the option to re do this year, at no cost, if that's what they choose.

PS The ethical thing would have been for your dh's company to take the apprentices on, but been flexible about their start date. An apprenticeship isn't just a training programme btw - training only represents 20%. Not cancel them full stop. But clearly nothing you can do about that.

Students will graduate, grades protected. Phew!

That's simply not true. Students still have to pass final assessments. If the don't pass then they don't graduate. If they pass then there will be a minimum grade that they won't go below - no guarantee that minimum grade is fair though.

My institution has done everything on your list, apart from offer students the chance to retake for free. Although students always have the option to retake the year if they want, although given they only lost two weeks teaching (post-Easter is exams only) we wouldn't recommend that course of action - which of course would impact the current second years if large numbers of finalists repeated.

Yes modules have to meet the 40% overall minimum. No one wants the class of 2020 to go into the world with degrees not worth the paper they're written on.

titchy

What are you talking about?

20% is training? What's the 80% then?

And how can they take on any apprentices? They run a three day recruitment process involving interviews, assessments, group work - how do they do that? They'll open the scheme once they can recruit.

Those that have been taken on have been retained - doing no practical work or training because no one is working.

Yes modules have to meet the 40% overall minimum.

So your statement that students will graduate, grades protected, phew isn't true. They will graduate if they pass.

As for its only two weeks missed - that's rubbish. My daughter has had no tuition since mid February. That's no tuition at all on these final modules. No oversight of her essays, no discussions with lecturers or seminar leaders, no guidance. Nothing. If you think that has no impact on her attainment then clearly academic staff are not necessary and students can just teach themselves, so what's the role of academic staff then?

My institution has done everything on your list,

And I've just seen this - one of my requests was for extensions to go into the summer term. And apparently you've done this. So, you obviously think it's necessary. Well, my dds uni hasn't done this, so clearly you agree that she hasn't been well supported.

Hear I actually want to know what uni your dd goes to now, it sounds awful

Hear I actually want to know what uni your dd goes to now, it sounds awful

I think that's the opinion her and her friends are reaching too.

Every single one of those things in your list has been done at mine and others' universities as far as humanly possible.

It appears to be unfortunate that they haven't happened at your daughter's but I'd be surprised if none of those things were happening .....I know, I know, you'll accuse me of calling you a liar. I'm not, but as someone who studies and researches universities I honestly can't believe that it will be the case that your daughter's university has abandoned all final years. To put it callously, it would destroy their reputation in so many ways. Plus most academics and universities do care about their students despite what you think.

Two things though, making ALL resources available online isn't always possible and adding extra resources is very time consuming ( and costly). What I'm seeing universities do is extend their no detriment policy to not penalising students for not including resources they were unable to access due to lockdown. Maybe this is worth investigating.....

Also, extensions......blanket, long term extensions aren't typically good practice. Although, in the current situation they might be appropriate. However, all assessed work needs to be marked, internally and externally moderated. This takes time, involved lots of staff and needs to be done before the exam board.Most universities are trying to ensure that students get their qualification in the original time frame ....moving exam boards is a last, last resort.

Academics organise their time and annual leave around marking commitments. I've essentially cancelled and moved annual leave to accommodate extensions but I'm also being told to make sure I use my annual leave. I've got 6 weeks to take before September ....most of which I think I'll lose. I've already made myself ill due to not having a proper break but yeah according to you I'm still not doing enough 🤷

.

I want to know this awful uni too.

(80% of an apprenticeship is work-based btw.)

I don't see what the problem with retaining a 40% (in reality prob 38.5%) minimum is - even with no supervision just reading the essentials off the reading list is enough to get 40%. And if some of the module has already been assessed the exam mark needed could be very low indeed.