University Fees for on-line Lectures

[Kastanien]

Latest this morning(sorry if it is already on here, I checked and could not see a thread)
www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-52506283

Just wondering how those of you with DC due to start (or return to Uni) in the Autumn feel about full tuition fees for on-line learning?
I feel there should be a reduction as the teaching is not the same on-line as face to face.

Really? You think many of you have answered with good grace? I've been called ignorant, stupid, had my education called into question, asked if I have difficulty understanding, been called a pushy parent. Posters have mocked my daughter. Students with mental health issues have been compared to drunks in A and E - you think you've all responded professionally and shown academics in a good light on this thread?

I'm sure that there are good universities and good staff out there. Personally, I have not heard about them - I've heard about my son's experience, my daughter's experience, my nephew's experience and their friends too. They've all reported variations on a theme - particularly my daughter and nephew and their friends ( all the same age). Their three years at uni have been affected by industrial action, every year, and now this. None of the unis that they are aware of have reacted well with regards the final year students. Your university might well be doing things differently. I'm talking about the effects that I am witnessing and they aren't good and are adversely affecting the students that I know of.

I am hung up on the fact you've not acknowledged a single positive post in relation to academics. It's really pissed me off if I'm honest

Don’t waste your emotional energy or time on Hooves. They just get off on arguing; it lights their fire and gives them the jollies. I’ve seen them on other threads.

Offer up a silent thought for their poor DD, who is probably mortified, and move on.

My example was of people not only being asked to do things they're not qualified for, but also deal with situations that can be emotionally traumatic, and should not have occurred in the first place because there should be external safeguards in place

And furthermore - that it’s about professionals having to deal with the situation they’re not qualified to sort out BEFORE they can do the thing they’re expert in, and the thing that the patient/student really needs.

All of my responses have been in good grace - many of which have been answering questions you've specifically asked me directly.
You've ignored my responses (which is rude) unless you've picked up on something you think you can use against me or confirm your biases towards academics.

You're right yetanother.....it's really not worth it.

I don't agree with institutions taking students money and then leaving them high and dry which is exactly what has happened this year.

You believe that your DD has been left “high and dry”. You cannot generalise from one second-hand example.

Offer up a silent thought for their poor DD, who is probably mortified, and move on.

Really? Firstly, my DD knows nothing about my thoughts on it. Secondly, my DD and the other students I know are saying much, much worse things about their experiences. If you think what I'm saying is bad I'd hate you to hear what they are saying. Thirdly, none of you have done anything to disabuse me of my opinion. In fact you've merely convinced me that I was right.

They just get off on arguing; it lights their fire and gives them the jollies. I’ve seen them on other threads.

I can’t help feeling sorry for someone with such anger issues. I suppose that’s why I keep trying to explain - so they can shift from such a bitter eaten-up perspective. It’s not healthy to carry such impotent rage.

You believe that your DD has been left “high and dry”. You cannot generalise from one second-hand example.

Nope. Going on what my nephew has told me. My daughter. My nephew's girlfriend. My dds four housemates. Five of my dds friends. So that's 7 universities. So, not one student.

That's because you've conveniently ignored all the examples given of academics going above and beyond....

You are a more patient person than me Cat. I just figure you can’t argue with stupid and move on :).

CatandtheFiddle

You see, it's that superior, supercilious attitude that I'm talking about. Do you talk down to your students in the same way?

I'm angry because my daughter's final year at university has been flushed down the toilet by staff who thought it was ok to make her miss 8 weeks of lectures due to strike action and then ended teaching at the start of lockdown when, at the very least, they could have carried on with online lectures and seminars until the start of the Easter holidays. So, yes, I'm angry about that because she is angry. And upset. And disappointed. But hey. You got your degree, so that's ok right?

This thread started with people posting in good faith about their concerns for students affected by coronavirus also taking into account that many have also been affected by striking lecturers.
The thread has now descended into a slanging match.

I suggest the academics on here start a different thread to discuss/ complain about the many, many issues they seem to have with their roles.

My DC spent hours researching courses and universities, attending Open Days, studying and achieving top grades at A level.
They wanted to be taught by the brightest and best, inspirational academics.
They were fully aware that they would be expected to spend hours reading in self directed study.
All of my DC have had some outstanding lecturers and as a result of a bereavement, one of my DC had some excellent pastoral support from a member of staff fully qualified to give that support.

They have been disappointed by the strikes, the fact that they will never have certain modules which were part of the reason for choosing the course in the first place and now the uncertainty due to Covid 19 ( which is no ones fault.)

There have been some very inflammatory comments on here by academics who seem to take every comment extremely personally.
Despite some of you saying you love your job, you still come across as exceptionally jaded and cynical.
Interestingly this seems to be directed at some students and certainly towards their parents, rather than the university administration.

That's because you've conveniently ignored all the examples given of academics going above and beyond....

Which helps the students that I know about, whose lecturers haven't gone above and beyond, how precisely?

If you came on here to complain about a nurse that had treated you very badly or had harmed you in some way would it be of any service to you if I told you that you are stupid and that many nurses work incredibly hard and go above and beyond every day? No, it wouldn't because you would still have been harmed.

7 universities out of nearly 400 providers
Or more accurately....

7 courses out of over 50,000

Lots of second hand anecdotal information

That is not a complete picture of the sector.
That's not to say their experiences aren't correct or valid but it does seem like everyone you've ever met who has been to university has had a poor experience. That's unusual and bad luck.

There appears to be an awful lot of confirmation bias going on.

The way you talk hear suggests that the entire sector is poor when that's really not the case.

hear I wouldn't be judging an entire profession on the poor experience I had. I would be reassured that there were examples of good practice out there.

No we can't help your daughter - although as I've mentioned previously, if I were her I'd investigate what her uni is doing to support 2020 graduates. I know of a number of universities which are putting in place additional, extended support for this year's graduates. The plans might not be finalised or public yet but it's worth looking into. The careers and employability services would be a good place to start.

However, you can't expect to slag off an entire profession without getting people's backs up. It's human nature.

Look, I don't know about, nor have I pretended to know about any other university other than the ones students have told me about. They have told me their experiences and I have based my opinion on what they have told me. I really am not interested that you or your university are doing amazing things. That's great for your students but does nothing to help my DD or make her experience any better or compensate her for the effect that this year has had on her degree. None of what is happening in your university means diddly squat to her and her outcomes does it?

And I've never called you stupid.....

See my last post hear some of us have offered advice .......

However, you can't expect to slag off an entire profession without getting people's backs up. It's human nature

Right back at you though if you think it's ok to slag off certain parents or groups of students and not expect to put people's backs up.

Lecturers decided to take two lots of strike action this academic year - presumably they did so knowing it was going to wreak havoc on their students education but did it any way. They cannot now be surprised to find out that has caused upset and anger amongst the students affected?

My sons have had a good 3 years at Bristol but there should certainly not have been strikes and I find few lecturers seem to support the Conservative party which to my mind means we do not have diverse lecturers - they seem to be 99% not Tories which is not at all balanced but I can live with that and my sons will get their degrees this term and all will be well. I will not get back any of my money, nor the £3k rent for this term, nor the £700 hotel bill for the graduation the universities cancelled etc etc so I am certainly down an awful lot in a situation where lots of groups but not me get furlough, self employed money and all sorts - zilch if you are a sole trader with before tax profits of over £50k as Sunak seem to hate those who are honest and declare their profits and don't evade nor avoid tax via a limited company.

SueEllenMishke

I didn't say you had. But posters on here have said it.

As PickUpThePieces said this thread wasn't about academics. It was for parents to express their opinions about university fees.

When nurses and doctors go on strike to protest about their working conditions and the effect those have on patient care, do you agree with them because you know that in the long term better outcomes for patients come from being treated by staff who feel valued hear? Or do you damn them because of the effects on current patient care?

I am not a fan of strikes. I would not remove the right in law but I am glad those on strike don't get paid. I am not a great NHS fan either actually although I support some kind of minimal much pared down NHS.

I haven't slagged anyone off and I didn't strike.