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University Fees for on-line Lectures

999 replies

Kastanien · 04/05/2020 09:00

Latest this morning(sorry if it is already on here, I checked and could not see a thread)
www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-52506283

Just wondering how those of you with DC due to start (or return to Uni) in the Autumn feel about full tuition fees for on-line learning?
I feel there should be a reduction as the teaching is not the same on-line as face to face.

OP posts:
SueEllenMishke · 06/05/2020 09:10

FFS not all students are getting a sub standard experience.
Stop generalising

YetAnotherSpartacus · 06/05/2020 09:12

Don't be a snug twat. I doubt the complaints procedure is worth anything if the rest of the admin is anything to go by

Oh Lordy. Before your DS managed a place in a university did you used to join the teacher-bashing threads?

And you are the one being smug and rude.

Tell your son to contact his union and/or his friends and complain to the university and publicly too using social media. If it really is that bad and he has actual evidence then I'm sure someone will publicise it.

jasjas1973 · 06/05/2020 09:15

How do you know the proportions that are? On-line learning is just an OU course and they don't charge 9250 do they?

My DD is getting a very shoddy experience and so is every other student who needs placements and field trips to support their learning.

We've had to sign up for her accomodation for next year, that may well be 5k down the drain... but thats all ok in your world.

titchy · 06/05/2020 09:16

The Govt should support the University sector (as they have supported many other sectors) not young people,

Government in its wisdom has decided that rather than give the sector the support it needs, it will add more regulation and make sure universities CANNOT reduce their fees even if the entire of 20/21 is online - unlikely though that is.

AgileLass · 06/05/2020 09:17

My DD is at Plymouth Uni, doing OT, on-line for the last 2 months, emails go unanswered, deadlines changed, parameters for work changed at the last moment, all placements cancelled.

Apart from not answering emails, which is bad, I can’t see what’s all that awful about this list, given that universities are having to deal at very short notice with an unprecedented global pandemic and lockdown. Unless deadlines have been brought forward instead of pushed back, which would be unreasonable.

titchy · 06/05/2020 09:17

Don't be a snug twat. I doubt the complaints procedure is worth anything if the rest of the admin is anything to go by

Alternatively you could take the advice many here have offered and go to the OIA. Maybe have a quick google...

titchy · 06/05/2020 09:19

OT Placements cancelled - well what did you expect? Would you have preferred them to go ahead? Hmm

SueEllenMishke · 06/05/2020 09:22

Jas because we're not talking about online learning.
We're talking blended and remote learning. They're very different and still involve face to face teaching.

jasjas1973 · 06/05/2020 09:24

How can a healthcare student train properly without placements?

She recently had to do a assessment on a elderly lady with COPD, the plan was to visit the actual house, moved to a series of photos and an very inaccurate plan.
Complaints about this went unanswered.

Now i understand that its not practical to do this type of assessment now.... our argument is that students are still expected to pay the full fee's for what is basically a distance learning course, the Uni's are in breach of contract, the learning experience has changed beyond recognition and not what was signed up for.

Furthermore, without significant support, the Uni sector will fold, the govt might be able to rip off uk students but foreign students will not come here and that will dramatically affect their viability.

AgileLass · 06/05/2020 09:26

the Uni's are in breach of contract

Force majeure

WindsorBlues · 06/05/2020 09:27

I'm an Admin Officer at a University. Yesterday from 08.00 - 2300 I WFH on plans yesterday on how best to commence teaching if Lockdown is still in place come September and how to make our building safe if social distancing is in place.

Our Admissions Team worked flat out for the past month making hard decisions on offers entry grades since there won't be any exam results.

Staff who can't work from home are being retrained for student wellbeing so they can offer support to new students via email and telephone to ensure they will be settling in OK.

The researchers are working on a vaccine for the Corona Virus and on rapid testing kits one which can give a result immediately is nearly completed.

The cleaning team have been deep cleaning every square inch of the place.

This is only my University and its only the things I'm aware of. There's a lot more going on to help your children.

My point is a lot of work has went into your DC University experience before they even start paying the £9000. Staff are all still working, and working dam hard, to give your children a safe and hopefully positive experience at University. They will not be at a disadvantage they will still attend lecture via zoom they will still study and sit the exams so it isn't a wasted year. It boils my piss when I see that people want to wriggly out of fees because their little Susie can't get out for their freshers 2for1 on a Tuesday night.

jasjas1973 · 06/05/2020 09:29

Yes that sort of comment is why students and parents are pissed off with the whole thing..... in other words "tough shit sucker"

SueEllenMishke · 06/05/2020 09:30

We're not ripping off anyone.
Blended learning courses are far more resource intensive than traditional courses.

jasjas1973 · 06/05/2020 09:31

It boils my piss when I see that people want to wriggly out of fees because their little Susie can't get out for their freshers 2for1 on a Tuesday night

Who has said that? anyone who did is a bit thick.

brassbrass · 06/05/2020 09:33

The accommodation thing is interesting too Xenia.

Had an older friend of DS's who in his first year only did a term before changing the course and the uni. They had had to pay halls fees in full in advance for the whole year. They were told they wouldn't get any money back on the two terms he wouldn't be using them. Even though the room would be reallocated and the new student would be paying fees. So uni wouldn't have lost any income but saw fit to fleece the family anyway. I could understand an admin fee for the inconvenience or some kind of deposit being retained but making them pay the full whack?!

There's also a new trend with estate agents asking for 12 month contracts on student digs.

googlepoodle · 06/05/2020 09:34

For those of you with year 2 and 3 students - are you expecting them to move into their new houses of lectures are online? I have kind of assumed that even if the first term is completely online then dd will still move to her student house so at least she is with her friends and can have some social life.

AgileLass · 06/05/2020 09:34

Well it’s not “tough shit sucker” seeing as - by your own admission - your daughter’s dept is working to make adjustments: cancelling placements, reframing assessments, moving deadlines. I’m sure staff at OT in Plymouth are working their asses off right now, probably deeply concerned for their jobs as theirs is the type of institution which would be very vulnerable to closure in the sort of “shake-up” you seem to want.

How would you and your DD like it if her Uni folded half way through her degree? Because that’s the sort of scenario that’s coming, if the sector gets ripped apart in the way that the government, and some posters on here, want. It’s already happening in the US.

jasjas1973 · 06/05/2020 09:37

Blended learning courses are far more resource intensive than traditional courses

If the Uni is closed, then its on line learning, you can call it by another name but its distance learning, my DD has zero face to face access to anyone, not even virtually.

Uni's can't change fee's which is why i said the Govt is ripping students off.

But the bigger picture is whether there will still be a Uni sector worthy of the name in the future and what today's 13 and 14yo will think about going to university.

brassbrass · 06/05/2020 09:40

Google

Literally no idea as there has been no info from the uni as to what next term will look like. We're still struggling to make sense of this term nevermind the next one.

I was supposed to have signed guarantor documents for DS but glad I didn't now. They've found a house but no way I'll be paying for anymore time he isn't living there.

BatleyTownswomensGuild · 06/05/2020 09:40

Schools in my area are paid £6000 a year for educating pupils. (Too little IMO, but there you go.)

Universities have tons of overheads that schools don't have - the cost of stocking and maintaining vast academic libraries. (Have you looked into the cost of academic textbooks and subscriptions to online journals - it's eye-watering!) They have tons of professional depts that do not generate income but still need to be funded - such as careers teams, student welfare teams, finance teams, examinations teams etc. If it's a campus university they will also have large estates teams to maintain the site. And if they run a lot of science and techy courses there will be labs full of expensive equipment etc. I understand that £9000 a year is a big outlay for an education but, when you look at the complete picture, it's not 'greedy' (some posters seem to suggest.) In my organisation it barely covers costs. Many Universities are close to bankruptcy as a result of Brexit and COVID-19. There is a very real threat of mass redundancies across the sector at the moment.

Nobody is suggesting that this is ideal, or permanent. It's just a means of ensuring students' education continues without interruption during a time of global emergency.

SueEllenMishke · 06/05/2020 09:42

There really is a HUGE difference between online and remote delivery.
If we are in a situation where it's remote delivery in September then students will still be getting lectures, seminars and tutorials. That is resource intensive and expensive.
In all likelihood we'll have had to take a pay cut too .....for a job many of us are underpaid for in the first place.

jasjas1973 · 06/05/2020 09:44

@AgileLass

Your confusing me with another poster, i don't want any shake up and UK student fee's will not prevent the sector from folding, Some Uni's have huge dept tied up in accommodation and financial planning based on full halls of residence.
It is vital the sector receives govt support now.

A degree based on 1/2 the content is worthless anyway, no medical course can be completed without placements.

If these cannot be done, then it might be better to defer until they can.

CatandtheFiddle · 06/05/2020 09:46

Going online is something universities are doing to ensure the students continue to study and the university running, there is no other option, nobody gets to have exactly what they want while we are fighting a pandemic

At last! some straightforward logical thinking.

To make the point yet again - universities are not closed. All our colleagues are working, we are all doing our jobs through the lockdown. How we teach may change - temporarily - while the whole world sorts out how to live with a vicious virus.

We are thinking fast & hard about how to offer practice-based teaching :
labs for STEM & Humanities students,
hands-on training for health-care students,
studio practice for arts & creative arts students,
archives and non-digitisable materials for humanities students (eg historians, archaeologists)

As well we are trying to preserve and enhance what is central to a university education: the opportunity to learn through discussion and debate with peers, framed and facilitated by expert academics.

There is a difference between teaching and learning. Parents and students who are used to the target driven teaching-to-the-test of secondary education, may be unused to and puzzled by the shift that we as academics facilitate and guide - the shift from us teaching to students learning.

Learning opportunities are offered. Most students take them up, and we love to see them fly! We get very disheartened by those undergrads who resist the opportunities offered.

I was educated in what is probably still the best university in the country for my discipline. I was an undergraduate about 35 years ago - I was extremely well-taught, by world-leading experts in my field. But their attitude was that I was an adult, I made my choices, I worked out how and what I wanted to learn - they were there to structure that learning, offer knowledge and content from their expertise, challenge me, push me, ask me questions, guide and frame my learning. That's how I still teach.

They were not distracted by the hand-holding guidance & support, and the step-by-step work we have to do with students now - not on content knowledge. but on how to learn.

I think this isn't that students nowadays are less intellectually able (although more of the less able attend university, which is a mixed blessing) but because the schooling system has moved from a vision of education as a social and personal good, to education as a mercenary means to ... well, I'm not sure what it leads to now. Topping the league tables?

It's tail wagging dog, cart before horse etc. - aiming to get an A rather than aiming to develop the understanding that might lead to an A. Or not, but you'll have actually learnt something.

And we academics get three years to put this the right way around so students learn how to learn, not how to get top grades. Top grades mean nothing. But students now see them as an end in themselves. Sadly so do parents.

TheMerrickBoy · 06/05/2020 09:46

@brassbrass
I don't think it's unreasonable that the uni hasn't told you what's happening next year: they won't know! How can they? I don't know about you, but I don't know what's going to happen next week, so it'd be odd if VCs were in full possession of all the facts and/or a crystal ball.

ListeningQuietly · 06/05/2020 09:50

It would be nice if some of the University staff on this thread would recognise the issues being raised by many of us parents.

The Lectures are not the problem
its the rest of the points made by Xenia and JasJas and myself
particularly
Labs / Practicals / Fieldwork / placements
Housing

and unless all University staff take on board those concerns they will get less and less support from current and future students
and the parents who guarantee the housing bills

Very interesting article in the current Economist about which Universities / Departments should be closed ......

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