University Fees for on-line Lectures

[Kastanien]

Latest this morning(sorry if it is already on here, I checked and could not see a thread)
www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-52506283

Just wondering how those of you with DC due to start (or return to Uni) in the Autumn feel about full tuition fees for on-line learning?
I feel there should be a reduction as the teaching is not the same on-line as face to face.

Final year student here, I do feel very short changed this semester. My lecturers are working so hard to deliver content and accommodate the change in assessment methods but my learning has been massively impacted.

I usually study at the library on the uni computers because my laptop is very broken , it doesn’t even load word or PowerPoint without crashing and obviously I cannot get it fixed during lockdown or get a replacement! Just lost my job and I’m paying rent for a shared house I can’t even live in!

I’ve moved home to an overcrowded house with shit wifi at the best of times! Trying to write my dissertation, multiple essays and reports and doing online exams is a lot harder now.

I usually borrow books from the library so I’m struggling to study with just online resources. I’m lucky though, as I don’t have a lot of lab/practical work that can’t be done from home as opposed to other courses. But a massive part of my course is discussion and simulation which is hard to do online!

As a lecturer I would say we are working very hard to deliver our online content and keep students engaged and I would say students have more access to us for support than ever before

I usually study at the library on the uni computers because my laptop is very broken , it doesn’t even load word or PowerPoint without crashing and obviously I cannot get it fixed during lockdown or get a replacement!

That sounds really difficult - have you asked your dept whether there is an IT fund for students in your position? My uni has one for those sorts of circumstances. Definitely worth asking.

I also wonder how the nappy changing pastoral care will be dealt with given lecturers are expected to be councillors as well as teachers these days?

When I went to uni for my first degree many years ago the lecturer had slides and stood in front of 200 people and read the slides word for word. No discussion around the slide, very occasional question was answered.

Now admittedly we didn’t pay fees back then. However going to uni was still expensive and I don’t think I had good teaching. I would say the teaching my students get, even online, is better than I had. But yes, it did teach me some great skills, research, independent study, resilience, self motivation. I still came out with a degree. The majority of current students will still come out with a degree and hopefully some other skills as well.

I’ve just been sat chatting to Dd who is sat on her bedroom floor crying and after a heart to heart she’s decided to not interrupt for a year and will go back in sept.

@PhoneLock I'd respond during working hours only otherwise they will expect you to be on call at all times.

@concernedstudent12 - it's worth putting a call out on your local FB community page, asking if anyone has a fast, glitch free laptop you can borrow until your work is done. People want to help each other during this crisis. People might even have some of the books you need. It's always worth asking. You might be really surprised how generous strangers will be.

bakedbeanzontoast
Your comment on pastoral care is deeply unpleasant.

Yes I have spoke to my programme lead about IT issues and I’m expecting a reply this week

That’s a good idea Ellan, I’ll have a look on FB for materials

Understandably it is a difficult situation for everyone and I really do feel for my lecturers who are passionate about the subjects they teach and are disappointed. We had a lot of interesting discussions planned before we had to go online!

The pastoral care is probably just as easy as ever for students. We can have a phone conversation or support by email. The student counselling services And other support services are still open, obviously phone/Skype not face to face.

Our no detriment policy has been changed and revised so many times with so many exclusions and "may not apply - we'll let you know" (exams are NOW and we still don't know) that it is now clearly a worthless PR exercise to shut he students union up.

With the IT thing I know before we closed down our library loaned out its entire bank of loan laptops to any students needing one who were staying anywhere local. We still have people on my course who got fucked over with an assignment requiring the use of some software only available in a lab on campus who hadn't done the software part of the assignment yet (they were perfectly in their rights to - the deadline had another month to run before we closed), and many of us had struggled to get a clean recording to analyse before then as the strikers had been whistling and blaring music outside the lab in question. Those who hadn't done the recording part of the assignment before campus locked up have basically been told they'll have to defer till the summer (when there's no word on if campus will be open anyway) or find alternative software themselves to do it with and teach themselves. While inwardly part of me does smile slightly at some of our lazy last minute brigade being caught out like this - they still got fucked over quite badly with no effort made to help them out with it.

Our department secretary I've had quite a lot of dialogue with (I got deferral applications in very quickly once schools closed because I have to support my own kids first) is struggling on working on a laptop she's fished out of a cupboard in her house that's five inches deep in dust and powered by a geriatric hamster in a wheel by all accounts - doing a valiant job but really without the support to do so.

They can't run into late September and the new academic year that badly organised - in the short term and for the summer term it's survivable - thankfully by the time things closed we were very much into the "revision sessions" part of the end of the term - and while the technology in terms of presentation and collaboration software is in place - the whole supporting infrastructure still isn't set up for it. Our library service is well set up though - we have a lot of online access I use a lot anyway instead of going into the library much.

Like I say - I'd bloody love it if they reduced the numbers on campus a bit by doing online for our content delivery a few days a week and then us out on placement the others - would save me a tonne of hassle in commuting, but we're a very close knit well-established cohort, and we're very good at supporting ourselves informally on a group chat - and our lecturers are generally (we have one who drives us to despair - we love him really) very good at responding to emails and letting us know when is the best time to contact them for an email response. Can't see it working as well with a cohort of 200 versus our cohort of 30 - we generally don't even ever get into a big lecture theatre as we're such a small group - they timetable us in the campus broom cupboard classrooms!

Going online is something universities are doing to ensure the students continue to study and the university running, there is no other option, nobody gets to have exactly what they want while we are fighting a pandemic.

If all the students said they want the fees reduced, the universities probably would go bankrupt and there would be no place to return to at the end of this. You will still have a student loan to pay, but no qualification. Going online is the lesser of two evils.

In the same way, if given this pandemic, you go to the supermarket to find it under stocked, with usual products replaced by some you like less but still good for purpose. If you were to leave the supermarket empty handed because you don’t want to adapt to the situation, whatever happens to you is caused by your own decisions. Same if you are a student in university, if you choose to ignore the lifesaver (online education) that has been thrown at you, it is your decision, any consequences from it, your problem.

I also wonder how the nappy changing pastoral care will be dealt with given lecturers are expected to be councillors as well as teachers these days?

I actually resent having to do pastoral care. It's not what I'm trained in and I don't think it should be my job. But the university expects it and the students expect it. But I'm dealing with stuff that is way out of my league - including emails revealing suicide attempts and such like (obviously I refer on). Meanwhile, our senior management hasn't hardly managed to choke out a 'thanks' and our struggles are shrugged off.

My DD is at Plymouth Uni, doing OT, on-line for the last 2 months, emails go unanswered, deadlines changed, parameters for work changed at the last moment, all placements cancelled.

Then there is the issue of rented accomodation, does she sign up for another 12 months @ £5000 or not? has already paid for 4 months accomodation that she hasn't used.

The lack of information is shocking and paying full fee's for what is basically an Open University course, which cost about 5k is very wrong.

The Govt should support the University sector (as they have supported many other sectors) not young people,
Universities are going to be wrecked by the lack of international students who are not going to come to the UK, pay 23k just to sit in a flat looking at a laptop.

Same if you are a student in university, if you choose to ignore the lifesaver (online education) that has been thrown at you, it is your decision, any consequences from it, your problem

Had to laugh at this, the lack of a skilled and educated workforce will hold back any economic recovery for the UK, that makes it ALL our problem.
We wont be able to import skilled labour as we used to, especially medical staff.

My comments were no more personal than saying parents and students are uninformed and lying about their experiences. Plus then saying I'm bitter and have a plank on my shoulder isn't a good look for you either. So if you want to be sanctimonious about it try harder with your own comments.

Posters have raised very valid points about the raw deal students have been getting this year with the strikes and the lockdown. No one has said the pandemic is your fault don't even know where that one was projected from.

Some of you keep posting like you know what's happening in every campus across the country and trying to minimise and diminish the difficulties that student families are facing. Blanket comments about the third term being about assessments don't help your case. Again you don't know how every single course in the country is structured so stop fobbing people off. Stick to answering about your own dept and your uni because that's all you know about. Stop extrapolating and trying to discredit what may be going on elsewhere. All the points about completing work without access to labs for Stem subjects etc are all very concerning.

That final remark likening pastoral care to nappy changing shows the contempt some of you have for students. With that attitude revealing itself I would say that You are very jaded and bitter. My response to that on behalf of all students who are suffering now would be 'oh do fuck off'.

I also noticed the side step to talking about picking up other life skills. How patronising!!! We're talking about 9k of tuition in the form of lectures, seminars, 1-2-1s, labs, access to other appropriate uni facilities required for a given course which hasn't been delivered this year.

concernedstudent, it's worth emailing a local computer repair shop, rather than trying to get a laptop fixed at a big chain. My DS had an issue with his and the local shop allowed him to drop it off (even though the shop is closed) and fixed it for £40. People really are very kind and helpful in times of genuine need.

brass just as you are complaining that we're making blanket statements about courses and universities, you are doing the same about academics.
No not all universities are the same but neither are all academics. You refuse to acknowledge that some of us are actually doing a bloody good job.....we've also acknowledged that some students aren't having a great experience. However, some are! I care about my students and I've always gone above and beyond and that's not changed. However, some students are hard work and we shouldn't have to put up with that . I've had students complain about me with fabricated complaints just because they aren't happy with their marks.....it hasn't made me jaded but it's made me more cautious.

I actually do have a pretty good insight into a number of universities. The nature of my course means I work closely with 7 other universities. Also my husband is a senior manager at another university and he's getting information from his network. Some universities have treated their staff terribly too....but on the whole what I'm seeing is a sector trying to do the best it can knowing that there will be mass redundancies, pay cuts and even complete closures.

you are doing the same about academics.

Bullshit. I came on to voice DS's experience and was told that I was uninformed and that DS was probably lying. I found it odd that unless you were at his uni or here at home with us how you could possibly know anything at all.

Maybe a massive shake up is exactly what is needed in this sector. Get some accountability built in because at the moment it seems too easy to keep taking the cheques but not deliver on the promises in the prospectus.

Nobody said you were lying. However, we were offering our experiences .....which are just as valid.
You were also told to complain a number of times.
You, however, have decided we're all shit at our jobs and seem to take great pleasure in telling us that.

The universities or Governmenmt need to do something about private rents. I have paid £3000 for this term out of after tax income for my twins' rent in 2 properties which we will not get back. I can live with that and accept the £700 non refundable hotel fees for the graduation week which is not cancelled in July. The twins have had a pretty poor show year from university with strikes and then the final term ruined in my view by the wrong decision to shut down of the government. I favour the Swedish approach.
They will also finish their degrees with the worst outlook for student jobs probably since in the 1930s.

I feel sorry for those in year 2 and 3 however because they found and often paid big deposits for houses to rent by about December 2019 for starting to rent those places for the 2021/22 academic year., They have contracts signed and parents are paying about £5k a year in many cases with in most cases 6 or 7 separate parents also providing parental guarantees. If they will not be starting courses in september or if medics will but not history people who is going to sort out that mess? Is the parent of the medic going to pay the rent for the whole house for term 1 if the parents of arts people who will be at home studying on line will not be in the house?

For fuck sake, brassbrass, STOP saying that I said your DS was lying. I didn’t.

Your comments towards me were aggressive and insulting - don’t misrepresent what I said in order to justify your attack.

@brassbrass

Fully support all you have said.

Students signed up for one thing, are now getting something completely different and sub standard, yet are expected to pay full fee's.

Govt needs to support the Uni sector or it will fold.

Xenia it can be difficult for some universities. Not all of them own accommodation. We don't own any student accommodation. Our SU can advise students it's hard for us to lobby or do anything locally.