Time to get real people

[cookingmywaythroughlockdown]

Ok I think it's time to get a grip on reality!

Coronavirus is pretty nasty but it isn't apocalypse now time. Most of us are going to get it at some point and we will be just fine. So will our families and friends.
The UK cannot stay locked down for much longer without producing a national disaster that will reverberate for decades. So - you will be going back to work, your kids will be going back to school. Wash your hands well and enjoy your lives.
I'm just so sick of the posts prophesying carnage and really enjoying competitive isolation. For most people living like this is borderline harmful. For some it is already actively harmful.

We have to come out from under the bed. Wear a mask, wear gloves if you like but be prepared to live a normal if socially distanced life.

All epidemics burn themselves out eventually. We are much better placed to treat and protect the vulnerable then ever before. At some point soon we have to just get on with it.

lockdown won't end because 'people get real', it will end because the government loosens restrictions

People in my area (including me) are already getting real without permission from the govt. - meeting their families, going out to buy non-essential stuff (horror!) going out for walks etc more than once a day. lockdown is ending so the Govt better hurry and come up with that plan if they want to continue pretending they are totally in charge.

Taxation is only one method of raising money, borrowing is another. Government debt is not the same thing as household debt. It does not need to be paid back in regular installments.

positivemoney.org/how-money-works/advanced/what-about-the-national-debt/

And another one. Rant lock on. Haven’t rtft, just scanned, I liked Nellodee’s thunderstorm analogy. Not wrong.

I wouldn't worry Flies, the model allows for lack of compliance among certain groups. Others will do the work for you and your family.

There has been no rise in suicides so far. Our NHS staff and patients who have been in intensive care are definitely amongst the worst affected by a deterioration in mental health.

Ok so did you even look up what happened in 1918?
There are pictures of mask wearing.
And they used school closures and sicial distancing to flatten the peaks! Wow to think!
And in cities where they released too early - what happened you ask.! Well they went up into an even higher peak.

I understand that you dont care because it doesnt affect anyone you know.
But - if you have kids it could affect their teacher.
Also do you realise in the 80% mild half of those have 'mild' pneumonia.

People are taking the piss with the hand wringing over the kids out of education

• many kids are having loads of fun
• lots dont even like school
• some dont have friends and are bullied
• some are enjoying the good weather and not having to be chaimed to a desk at 5yo.

-others are learning to cycle

• private school kids have 4w at xmas, 4 at easter and 8? In the summer. How on easth do they cope without school that long. They must forget how to read and write.

But erm no generally they seem to do perhaps better. If you were then to take a private school 4w easter we would have missed 1w before easter and 1-2? Now so 3w. Also other countries seem to have much longer summer holidays. Feel quite sorry for state school English pupils. Maybe the nations health would improve with being off from mid jun. (Kids in holiday clubs if necessary). Our kids are shoved in a 4.0yo and have to sit to learn phonics and writing. Other countries they are still in kindergarten and this means i assume smaller amount of school kids to get back to school. It also emerges our class sizes are huge. The country is really going to need to look at our health service (compared to say Germany) and schooling. Those factors long term will affect this generation of kids much longer term than 1/2 term or 14w off school. (As well as the obvious loss of parent/teacher)

‘Carrying on as-is comfortably, is a privilege which isn't afforded to many.’

This was already the case though under austerity, which we’ve lived through for a decade.

I understand that there are people who are falling through the gaps; there was a terrible case of this on another thread. But the vast majority of people aren’t been asked to take an income drop below universal credit level, which is what I already lived on.

So I find it a bit unsettling for it to be claimed that people cannot possibly live during a pandemic on the sum of money I live on all the time.

Please don't compare this to Spanish flu 🙄

People in my area (including me) are already getting real without permission from the govt. - meeting their families, going out to buy non-essential stuff (horror!) going out for walks etc more than once a day. lockdown is ending so the Govt better hurry and come up with that plan if they want to continue pretending they are totally in charge.

Then if everyone starts to do this, expect the next peak fairly soon. That is irresponsible behaviour to mix households.

I have no issue nor ever had with people buying a new dress, six bags of compost and three tins of paint from the supermarket, that's ok because it's on your shopping trip.

I mean this was an ill advised post which was always going to put backs up but I don't disagree with you OP.

The last pandemic that burnt itself out was the black death, 11 years and 50% of the English population.

People in my area (including me) are already getting real without permission from the govt. - meeting their families, going out to buy non-essential stuff (horror!) going out for walks etc more than once a day

Well aren’t you just great. It’s like the anti vaxxer- relying on the majority doing the best thing for the health of society, whilst beating your chests and acting as though you have some sort of moral superiority.

Who died & made you God?

Also, there's no proof that social isolation even works

Someone didn't do well in science at school?

Some kids will never catch up. Don't be utterly ridiculous. There are children who travel with their parents, are homeschooled, who are ill that have much more than a few weeks off if school and go on to do brilliantly in life!

Yes,there are treatments that will help with certain elements of CV that we didn't have with the SF - there still isn't A treatment for CV & a huge percentage of those going into hospital are dying

Your attitude stinks

Just checking - all the people mentioning Spanish flu appreciate that that was pre antibiotics, ventilators, cpap, continuous cardiac monitoring and dialysis? Pre any form of enhanced medical care in fact? So whilst I'm all for lessons from history the Spanish flu lessons are harder to read than it seems. There are some similarities, a novel virus in a non immune population but we have far more supportive care measures and an ability to address opportunities infections and complications alongside the virus.

Yeah it was.

The reason we had the lockdown is because we'd have run out of these things if we hadn't.

And what about all the trained staff you need for this healthcare.

Did you completely miss the point or did you just ignore it?

but we have far more supportive care measures and an ability to address opportunities infections and complications alongside the virus.

Which long term complications are these?

Ones which result in stroke, amputation, chronic lung problem, renal failure or cardiac problems?

Not all of these have magic modern solutions.

We don't know what other complications there might be year. Its possible it could lead to infertility. We don't know. There is some suggestion that it could kill T cells and lead to medium to long term immune system problems. We don't know for sure though.

And if you do have an underlying condition, what the fuck are you supposed to do? Die quietly without making a fuss for the greater good of society?

If only it were a simple problem with a simple solution.

Maybe you should take up a career in politics.

News are just saying lots of people who are really ill with this end up with kidney problems.

Look at the difference in curves between London and the north west, and I wonder if that's correlated to where there is more flexing of the rules?

maria860 it seems directly comparable to the Spanish flu - a pandemic, respiratory illness, easily spread and potentially fatal.

Imagine some MNers had been around during WWII. Air sirens going off but walking down the street "Eh, I've got to take Tyler and Riley to school and then am off to the hairdresser with me mam", and someone else sitting on a blanket in the park "I need to meditate for me mental health".

Nah, I'll stick with the advice and thank God I came home from hospital and think of the handful of people that have been cremated in my village in the last week or so.

It's a good thing that people are so divided on this. Then when the lockdown is eased only half will rush out and half will remain cautious at home.

Thats actually why I am finding the 'everyone should be locked down til a vaccine as I am in the high risk group' posts hard to understand. These have been rampant on my facebook..most people wanting lockdown extended for everyone are those in the high risk group, and when asked why they cannot isolate, theres no answer besides its not 'fair' to only expect some people to lockdown, everyone should bear the burden The others are people who seem to be enjoying furlough. Which I do understand, if you spend most of your time working, weeks off on near full pay..time to spend with family and do nowt is going to be a good thing for many..a few 'work from home' people seem to be posting constant pictures of them drinking in the garden too!

Those high risk who can self isolate, continue to do so. Those not high risk but who are scared, isolate as much as possible. But its not reasonable to expect the whole country to lockdown because you are scared really. Those enjoying time off..great, but its not sustainable really, not in its current form.

I think while deaths are still so high, if lockdown is relaxed a bit we will still isolate to some degree, though will most likely allow family to come as kids have missed them. But I wouldn't be shouting on for everyone to have to do it my way. Its a shame really that those high risk groups and such cannot be trusted to self isolate, like the Swedish are..and instead everyone has to hide away. But seemingly, anecdotally from my friendship groups, half those who are high risk want everyone locked down as 'its not fair for only us' and the other half ignore the rules and seem to have a 'if I get it I get it' mentality, while others are locked down to protect THEM!

I suspect folks dont fully comprehend quite how destructive this level of lockdown is to the economy. It is highly likely that negative growth is going to be in the double digits for the year, which on it's own causes thousands of deaths, I believe one figure is that for each .5% of negative growth, the average life expectancy drops by 3 months. Instead what is likely to occur is that government (which I think hasn't been totally atrocious in its response) will reopen non shielding under 40s to many aspects of economic life, as the cost of not doing this would be so devastating, it would likely overshadow the virus. Just as a result of the economic downturn thus far, it is likely there will be famine across the developing world, so its essential we fight the virus, while properly accounting for economic damage.

Surely the fact that some people don't have the privilege to stay at home in lockdown doesn't make it better for me to go out for no reason? Surely I'd only be putting those same people at risk? Surely the best thing anyone of us can do is to protect other people inasfar as we can? Or have I missed something?

OP I completely agree with you. it won't be a popular opinion on here though where were supposed to be staying in for 2 years and saying our goodbyes

Are you going to start the same thread every day under a different name?