Coronaphobia - people just have to get a grip

[wakeupitsabeautifulmorning]

I'm really worried that irrational fears are going to absolutely ruin the country as well as putting people at massive risk of dying from other things or developing mental health. And God knows what parents with it will do to their dc's mental health and development (keeping dc off school until there's a vaccination etc.)

This lockdown is causing huge damage to the economy which gets bigger everyday
No. The pandemic is causing huge damage to the economy. A second wave would increase that damage tenfold.

Isn't around sixty percent of the UK population obese? That's not a small proportion. Then add in common underlying conditions like diabetes, asthma, hypertension. The vulnerable are the majority. We also shouldn't ignore the fact that the BAME community has been disproportionately affected by Covid deaths. This should be borne in mind when thinking of premature ending of lockdown.

Enthusiasm “ I really dislike this sneery attitude of a number of here telling people to not be so foolish and basically toughen up with the pretence of being concerned about the mental health of the general public”

The “can’t cope with lockdown” threads are riddled with people telling us to get a grip, even when we’ve plainly said were suicidal. so it’s nice to see it the other way round for a change.

Toffee “ We also shouldn't ignore the fact that the BAME community has been disproportionately affected by Covid deaths. This should be borne in mind when thinking of premature ending of lockdown”

Why? Yes, I’m brown, and high risk for other reasons.

So you have a rational fear of other people’s irrational fears OP?

Or maybe you have an irrational fear of other people’s rational fears.

Lilac Why? Because premature ending of lockdown and the consequent second wave will likely kill lots of people from BAME communities, proportionately more than others. You may not care about the risks to your own life but you're an individual, you don't speak for every brown person, and I'd wager a bet the majority don't want to die a horrible and unnecessary death (and don't want that for their loved ones either).

@ToffeeYoghurt THIS. This is what I cba with. It’s not the lockdown that’s causing economic disruptions and it’s not the lockdown causing people to be depressed or lonely. The lockdown is a necessary response to the ACTUAL cause of all the shit happening. The pandemic is the cause. The lockdown is shit for some people but it’s not THE problem. It’s a rubbish side effect of the problem.

You’re really worried that irrational fears are going to absolutely ruin the country?

Have you considered that perhaps your own worry is irrational and that you may need to get a grip?

Toffee have either of us done a survey? No.

If white people were disproportionately affected, would you mention that?

Yes I would Lilac We need to understand the virus to have any hope of fighting it. Any factor that's relevant needs to be looked at. Be that sex, race, age, health status, or anything else. I don't understand what's the problem with being concerned. Would you rather people said oh well it's only bame people more affected, who cares? I can't do that.

Toffee - stating the obvious- I just feel you grab on to every thing to justify lockdown and frankly, I thought you were reaching for the virtue signal here.

And your disingenuous posts about mental health, bleugh.

My husband has an autoimmune disease and I am a keyworker in a care home. Of course I'm terrified! Please don't tell us to get a grip. I also suffer from health anxiety which doesn't help.

Anyway, I promised myself I would use my virtual ignore button so I’ll stop engaging with you now.

Go back in time a few weeks and imagine saying 'get a grip' to those people who've now lost people. Well, we just have to get used to the risk..
Because if this is lifted too early then we are right back to a few weeks ago, and so another few tens of thousands are at risk of dying. And who wants their family or friends or themselves to be a part of that?

I feel deeply for those who currently have no choice, who are falling through the gaps in provision, or who are working long hours in dangerous jobs right now because there's no support and they can't afford to lose their jobs.

But I don't think it's excessive to be wary of getting straight back to the way things were, especially for people who do have the opportunity to work from home and to look after their kids at home for the meantime. Some people's MH is made worse by the shutdown, but some people's MH is made worse by the thought of having to risk severe illness or death before there are more facts about what is going on.

@cantory - being offered a place and taking it up are 2 different things. My DD has been offered a place but she has not used it.

It's a pandemic.

Countries worldwide who usually are only concerned with GDP/economics have pulled the plug on the economy.

That tells you everything.

I'm extremely likely to die from this and I need a vaccine, not a grip.

And I am fit normally, resting pulse 50-60, but happen to have lungs which my immune system doesn't like when I have flares.

I'm not prepared to pop off before I see my 4 dcs leave home and get set upping life.

Until dcs leave home

I happily agree to disagree with people. I also accept I may well be wrong about how to handle the pandemic.

What I'm not is disingenuous about caring about mental health (unlike some posters). I'm not virtue signalling either. Please don't accuse me of being something I'm not.

I don't need to justify lockdown. I'll leave that to Boris, the Bank of England governor, Angel Merkel, and governments and scientists around the world. The facts speak for themselves. Like most people I don't want lockdown but I also don't want an even worse second wave - and the consequent second lockdown that would necessitate. Likely smack bang in the middle of a heatwave. The worst possible time to be confined to your home.

The economic consequences of a second wave would also be dire. So yes I'd rather longer initial lockdown over stop, start, stop, start and the damage that would do to lives and the economy. I choose what I believe to be the lesser of two evils.

I think you should stop handing out grips and go queue up for some humanity, OP.

You know that thousands and thousands of families are grieving because their friends and relatives have been killed by this. You know there are children among this number. You know there will be more. Yet you try to shame and bully people into raising their risk level in the basis that it probably won't be them. It may very well be a serious and prolonged illness for a fair proportion and it will certainly mean death for a number of these (and I would not describe that number as small, either). Many others will have long term side effects.

I would have listened to your point of view and we certainly need to hear from people with your views. But I'm not interested in hearing specifically from you as a result of your poor judgement in starting this thread and total lack of empathy. That wasn't particularly rational. There's something hysterical about this kind of bullying callousness.

@HorseRedArrow

Ok, so it’s disgusting and we should do whatever it takes to save the 100,000. What about 90,000. 9,000. 900? Just 9? What’s the limit?

Well, currently, the vulnerable is anywhere between 16 and 22 million people. There are an additional 1.5 million people shielding. That's ignoring of course the people who get complications or die who don't have pre existing conditions. That's an awful lot of "at risk" people that you are willing to chuck under the bus to, as the article said, enable people to play rugby or go to the pub.

To the posters who have said the vulnerable should be responsible for themselves and not get any help from government - do you apply the same principles to all vulnerable sectors of society? So, the unemployed (of which there will be estimated 3 million), or those with a disability, long term sick, those on low income or universal credit? Do you think all of those people must be responsible for themselves and not expect support from the government or society?

This virus isn't the fault of the vulnerable so why does their safety not matter? The government did not act quickly enough to prevent this - they should have been much more aggressive back in January and then we wouldn't be in this mess. Why should I and other vulnerable people pay the price for the government's ineptitude?

Yes. Pregnant women are in the vulnerable category. So tough if you can't afford to just quit your job at 3 months pregnant, just go into work?
Is that really what you think that no one else should give a shit?

Can I just ask a genuine question here.

What will happen when the money runs out?

The government and companies can not afford a lockdown until a vaccine - and so unless people are independently wealthy there won't be any choice but to return to work and school for the vast majority.

So wouldn't it be far far better than to have some agency and a plan about how to minimise the risk whilst returning to some sort of economic activity rather than simply say "lockdown as long as it takes".

Don't we also need the taxes to pay for public services ?

Surely desperate humans are more likely to behave in less helpful ways during a pandemic than risk managed humans who have the opportunity to put food on the table again?

Money doesn’t just run out. A country’s finances have no resemblance to a household’s. It’s far more complicated than that. Yes, there will be implications in the future for borrowing now, but the money will not, at any point, just run out.

But it will for individuals. And yes I am well aware that national finances are not run like a households although I can understand why you may have thought I did - FWIW I was very anti austerity and pro investing in public services for this reason.

To my point re individuals:
The furlough scheme for example won't be run indefinitely - so at some stage people will have to return to their jobs. In order to do that many people will need childcare. What then?

Irrational? Many thousands have died.

Its you who needs to get a grip