Will the airline industry ever return to normal?

[doobiedop]

With all the job losses predicted in the news, & social distancing measures will the likes of budget travel that we have come to expect still exist? Surely there will be less flights, less business travel & costs will be higher?

Even if international travel was stopped for the rest of my life, I would never bother to take a U.K. holiday, and I know I’m not the only one that feels this way
Same!
I go away once a year and a holiday to me is guaranteed sunshine, laying in said sunshine for as long as I want. Swimming in warm seas etc...
UK holidays for me just don't excite me nor give me the same level of relaxation and satisfaction.
I do have the odd weekend away in the UK but for a main summer holiday - I'll pass.

Maybe because my parents are immigrants & all holidays when young were spent abroad, I've liked exploring the UK over the last few yrs with the dcs.

Swimming in warm seas etc...
I do like this & generally find the Med too cold.

carole I’m honestly trying not to judge but maybe with a little imagination you could learn to explore a little? Holidays don’t just need to be lying on beaches, as lovely that is. We have beautiful coastline, forests, woods and hills to explore

I read an article in the Times yesterday saying that air travel will be cheaper as the airlines try to entice passengers back. I dislike Ryanair but if they are offering affordable flights...

fascinated

I love to travel, incl flights, but I’d be annoyed if the impact of the many many people driving their 4x4s on unnecessary journeys, running tumble dryers rather than bothering to hang washing on clothes dryers or outside on lines and commuting to pointless offices running freezing AC wasn’t captured..

Exactly IMHO, but you must get with the programme:

My school run is essential.
Your flight is a luxury.
My child's visit to Paris/Venice/Machu Picchu is essential for their development.
Your weekend away to Riga is flippant...

My child's visit to Paris/Venice/Machu Picchu is essential for their development

I was with you till this.

LOL! No it bloody well isn’t!

m in favour of people in the uk being 'allowed' the carbon footprint of one trip a year and they can sell those miles for cash to the rich who 'need' more

Who are you to say what’s essential? I and my partner are not the same nationality and we are in a third country. We take four long hauls just to see family and then holidays. Why dictate to others how they should live? If someone is willing and able to fly me across the world for a decent price, who are you to prevent that?

Flights are a drop in the CO2 bucket anyway.

Should also add we are not rich but minimize other expenses so we can do this, small house, no cars, cook at home, etc etc

Who are you to say what’s essential?

My guess is that the poster is just not that interested in travel and has no real reason - work or family - to travel abroad. Hence her smugness and belief that she gets to tell others what to do.

I mean, I don't drive. Driving is bad for the environment and very often not essential. Do I get to tell others - perhaps including this particular poster - that they should be rationed to so many gallons of petrol a year?

Cornetto..

Re my "Machu Picchu" comment..have another read..we are in agreement.

Flights are a massive part of the environmental problem

If we all had an 'allowed' carbon footprint of cars/public transport/flights then we would be much more conscious and we could make choices - if you don't have a car then you can have more flights, if you do have a car then you can commute further - the whole thing has to become a choice that we make for life to go on

I'm not smug or poor - I have plenty of cash to fly off to Paris for weekends but I don't because of the environmental damage

We've literally got about 12 years to turn this round before it's unstoppable and millions will die due to drought and our grandchildren will be starving and scratching around to live

Flights are a massive part of the environmental problem

So are cars, though I'm assuming you don't have one because you're so environmentally aware? I take it you walk or cycle everywhere?

I'm not smug or poor - I have plenty of cash to fly off to Paris for weekends but I don't because of the environmental damage

You may not be poor but you are certainly smug.

@sotiredwe

The med is absolutely too cold 🥶
For the warm seas we visit Florida and the Caribbean mainly. In the summer it’s like bath water ... and the fish! Oh so beautiful. You can’t experience that in the U.K.

I agree but tbh I hate the agg of flying far with young dc. So much waiting about. Also my dc don't know the difference between Sandy Lane & Summerleaze!

I do have a car (for Dh's commute) but I'm happy to pay for that with my carbon footprint

And I said 'smug' because it was one of the accusations levelled at someone else - my point is I've barely travelled and even though I have the cash to I've missed the boat as it's basically wrong environmentally

It's possible I may want to go somewhere one day and again, id be happy to have this as part of my carbon allowance

You really think it's ok that the wealthy (compared to the rest of the world even those on small incomes are 'wealthy') get to go anywhere why the impoverished all over the world pay the price through lack of water/food/resources ?

I would say that was smug

@Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow

Here in the U.K. if you want to explore coastline, forests, woods and hills, you generally have to put on your anorak and wellies (or at least put it in your backpack). Then it’s walking with the odd picnic stop. And whilst I’m more than happy to do that for a weekend (and we have done all that), I have never enjoyed it enough to say that’s how I want to spend my holiday.

But the Florida coastline you can swim in bath warm water. Lay on who the sandy beaches. Hunt for shark teeth in the surf. Watch the manatee and dolphin whilst sitting in the calmest shallows. Feel the sun on your face and see TV e beautiful palm trees.

You can explore the Florida forest on horseback. In shorts and a vest. As you ride through the saw palmetto and Spanish moss covered Cyprus trees, raccoons and deer cross your path as well as the odd coyote if you’re really lucky.

Woods is the same thing as forests.

Hills. Well Florida is pretty flat, but instead I’ll through in the springs. The bluest water you’ve ever seen. Clear as you like. Surrounded by vegetation and filled with fish. You can even take a tube and float in the warm water.

And the best thing...everyone is at the theme parks, so you get to do all this in isolation or in the smallest groups. Beaches are practically empty. Horse rides are either private or in groups of about 6. The springs or canoeing, often done in isolation. It’s pure bliss.

I’m not giving that up for anything. I would give up my 4x4 and tumble dryer to help the environment...but not my vacations.

I do have a car (for Dh's commute)

Cars are terrible for the environment. You should be ashamed of yourself. Though I assume you would never even consider using it for anything other than 'Dh's commute' and walk or cycle everywhere else?

my point is I've barely travelled and even though I have the cash to I've missed the boat as it's basically wrong environmentally

Pat yourself on the back. Nobody else is obliged to share your priorities and you don't get to impose them on others. Plus, not everyone flies for 'frivolous' reasons.

You really think it's ok that the wealthy (compared to the rest of the world even those on small incomes are 'wealthy') get to go anywhere why the impoverished all over the world pay the price through lack of water/food/resources ?

Yes, it's terrible that your 'DH' considers it his right to travel to work in an environmentally damaging way every single day. He should get a job next door.

Anyway, this discussion isn't about the environmental rights and wrongs of air travel so I'll leave it at that.

@sotiredwe

I understand.
We took DS long haul for the first time at 2 years old. It was hard work. When he got to about four, the food, games and movies kept him occupied and long flights actually became easier than short haul where there was nothing to do for 4 hours. That’s when we switched for good and we haven’t been on a flight less than about 8 hours long in about 11 years.

If we all had an 'allowed' carbon footprint of cars/public transport/flights then we would be much more conscious and we could make choices

It’s an artificial ration, there are companies willing and able to fly me at a reasonable price. Why are you interfering? Why should you be the judge of whether my reasons to fly are good enough?

I don’t have a car so I can use that extra money for flights. So my choices are already made, I don’t need you to interfere in my choices.

We've literally got about 12 years to turn this round before it's unstoppable and millions will die due to drought and our grandchildren will be starving and scratching around to live

No one but extremists are saying this. I’ve read the AR5 report, there are no scenarios as apocalyptic as this.

You really think it's ok that the wealthy (compared to the rest of the world even those on small incomes are 'wealthy') get to go anywhere why the impoverished all over the world pay the price through lack of water/food/resources?

The impoverished will pay even more when you stop visiting their countries and the tourist industry folds. They will suffer even more when businesses are encouraged to stay home and not seek out new markets (who is going to do delicate negotiations over Zoom?). Foreign students and workers from the Global South will suffer if they cannot access education, experience and connections in developed markets.

Your concern over their wellbeing will only impoverish them further.

Lol - the extremists are the UN

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment/2018/oct/08/global-warming-must-not-exceed-15c-warns-landmark-un-report

The point is that if we had a carbon footprint we were allowed we could spend it how we chose - I could have a black box on my car with allowed mileage which would balance out not taking flights

@LaurieFairyCake

That idea was broached probably more than 15 years ago and there were reasons why it wasn’t put in place then and hasn’t been put in place since.

Just because you want to live one way, doesn’t mean we all want to, or have to.

The judging from some on this thread astounds me.

Thankfully I don't give a shiny shit what they think, I've got a car in which I travel around 350 miles a week for work. I also do a return flight 5 or 6 times a year to visit my fiance who is abroad.

Due to both of us having caring responsibilities it's not possible for either of us to move country, therefore bloody right I'm gonna keep flying as much as I can - what else do you suggest I do?

Also gonna keep my car, and it's not a particularly eco friendly one either, but I can't afford to buy another therefore tough

If people say I'm selfish, fine I'm ok with that - we all have different priorities and who is anyone else to say what's 'right' jeez

millions will die due to drought and our grandchildren will be starving and scratching around to live

This is what you said. Your link says nothing of the sort. Certainly the IPCC AR5 said nothing like this Mad Max scenario you’ve concocted.

The lockdown hasn’t even got our carbon emissions down all that much and the economy is totally trashed. Do you think it can go much further without causing a substantial decline in living standards? How much more do you think people can sacrifice, given that a huge drop in flights and transport basically was worthless in terms of emissions?

Sorry, flights are really not the problem. But I guess you might feel like something is being done by restricting others. But it would only be a feeling, not reality.