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Daily numbers, graphs, analysis thread 7

981 replies

Barracker · 28/04/2020 12:53

Welcome to thread 7 of the daily updates.

Resource links:
Worldometer UK page
Financial Times Daily updates and graphs
HSJ Coronavirus updates
Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Centre
NHS England stats, including breakdown by Hospital Trust
Covidly.com to filter graphs using selected data filters
ONS statistics for CV related deaths outside hospitals, released weekly each Tuesday

Thank you to all contributors for their factual, data driven, and civil discussions.Flowers

OP posts:
Thread gallery
127
BigChocFrenzy · 01/05/2020 01:25

Actually, zooming in on that graph ....

2020 total deaths in Germany look average, not lower, if we ignore a previous bad flu year
If we focus on mid-March onwards, then imo 2020 is trending slightly above the 2016-2019 average

However no excess death spike I can see, either in the graph or in the raw data

EmMac7 · 01/05/2020 01:54

How has Germany had such a moderate epidemic? Genetics, early treatment/intervention, relatively high vitamin D levels?

I’m baffled.

BigChocFrenzy · 01/05/2020 02:23

afaik, Vit D levels in Germany are about as crap as anyone else's
and genetically should be similar to England, what with Anglo-Saxon heritage etc

imo, it's mainly down to good leadership making the right decisions,
a (very expensive) health service with huge capacity
and a very large network of labs across the country
.... enabling:

  1. early mass testing, so many cases picked up while symptoms still mild

  2. then monitoring and early treatment for all cases

  • regular home visits and no rationing of hospital admissions

I expect the curves after 5 April may start to rise a bit, as the peak deaths were at 8 April, then mostly high (250-330) until 23 April

With a population of 83 million, about 950,000 die annually
which is about 2,600 daily

So, a peak death of 330 was never going to be that significant,
BUT the issue was whether we'd see large "excess" death spikes, not in previous statistics, as in other countries

BigChocFrenzy · 01/05/2020 02:32

I expect these stats to further increase the political pressure for more relaxation:

recent figures show that the economy has been hammered and many small businesss will be going bust if most restrictions aren't lifted within say 3 months

However, I expect bans to remain for the rest of the year on gatherings > 30 or 50 people and on foreign holidays

Nquartz · 01/05/2020 06:16

@NewAccountForCorona I'm with you, I don't understand what the nightingale hospitals were meant to be used for.

Discharging older people to care/nursing homes seems bordering on criminal, but the nightingale hospitals seem the perfect place for them to go, plus all the people being tilt to stay home until their lips are blue.

NeurotrashWarrior · 01/05/2020 06:42

Lots of data analysis around v high rates of BAME deaths here:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/01/british-bame-covid-19-death-rate-more-than-twice-that-of-whites?CMP=ShareiOSAppp_Other

whenwillthemadnessend · 01/05/2020 08:17

I'd like to see the death certificate data from Germany What are they putting on the death Certs?

If someone had cancer are they stating that or covid.

Diet wise I may look into the vit d thing Vit d is found in fish, eggs, cheese fortified orange milk cereals and pork Do Germans eat a large Preportion of these foods??

RedToothBrush · 01/05/2020 08:24

www.ifs.org.uk/inequality/chapter/are-some-ethnic-groups-more-vulnerable-to-covid-19-than-others/
Are some ethnic groups more vulnerable to COVID-19 than others?

Key findings
The impacts of the COVID-19 crisis are not uniform across ethnic groups, and aggregating all minorities together misses important differences. Understanding why these differences exist is crucial for thinking about the role policy can play in addressing inequalities.

Per-capita COVID-19 hospital deaths are highest among the black Caribbean population and three times those of the white British majority. Some minority groups – including Pakistanis and black Africans – have seen similar numbers of hospital deaths per capita to the population average, while Bangladeshi fatalities are lower.

Once you take account of age and geography, most minority groups ‘should’ have fewer deaths per capita than the white British majority. While many minority groups live disproportionately in areas such as London and Birmingham, which have more COVID-19 deaths, most minorities are also younger on average than the population as a whole, which should make them less vulnerable.

After accounting for the age, gender and geographic profiles of ethnic groups, inequalities in mortality relative to the white British majority are therefore more stark for most minority groups than they first appear. Black Africans and Pakistanis would be expected to have fewer fatalities per capita than white British but at present they are comparable.

After stripping out the role of age and geography, Bangladeshi hospital fatalities are twice those of the white British group, Pakistani deaths are 2.9 times as high and black African deaths 3.7 times as high. The Indian, black Caribbean and ‘other white’ ethnic groups also have excess fatalities, with the white Irish group the only one to have fewer fatalities than white British.

These disparities cannot currently be accounted for by non-hospital deaths. Official deaths in care homes – for which the ethnicity of victims is not currently available but where over 95% of residents are white – could only explain a small part of estimated excess fatalities recorded in hospitals for minority groups. The ethnic composition of additional deaths directly or indirectly caused by the virus but not officially attributed to it is unclear at this time.

Occupational exposure may partially explain disproportionate deaths for some groups. Key workers are at higher risk of infection through the jobs they do. More than two in ten black African women of working age are employed in health and social care roles. Indian men are 150% more likely to work in health or social care roles than their white British counterparts. While the Indian ethnic group makes up 3% of the working-age population of England and Wales, they account for 14% of doctors.

At-risk underlying health conditions are especially prevalent among older Bangladeshis, Pakistanis and black Caribbeans. Compared with white British individuals over 60 years of age, Bangladeshis are more than 60% more likely to have a long-term health condition that makes them particularly vulnerable to infection, which may explain excess fatalities in this group.

Many ethnic minorities are also more economically vulnerable to the current crisis than are white ethnic groups. The fact that larger shares of many minority groups are of working age means that these populations are more exposed to labour market conditions as a whole, but even amongst working-age populations there are clear inequalities in vulnerability to the current crisis.

Men from minority groups are more likely to be affected by the shutdown. While in the population as a whole women are more likely to work in shut-down sectors, this is only the case for the white ethnic groups. Bangladeshi men are four times as likely as white British men to have jobs in shut-down industries, due in large part to their concentration in the restaurant sector, and Pakistani men are nearly three times as likely, partly due to their concentration in taxi driving. Black African and black Caribbean men are both 50% more likely than white British men to be in shut-down sectors.

Self-employment – where incomes may currently be especially uncertain – is especially prevalent amongst Pakistanis and Bangladeshis. Pakistani men are over 70% more likely to be self-employed than the white British majority.

While in the population as a whole young people are more likely to be affected by the shutdown, the reverse is true among Pakistanis and Bangladeshis. While 24% of young white British and 29% of young Bangladeshis work in shut-down sectors, the figure is 14% for 30- to 44-year-old white British but 40% for 30- to 44-year-old Bangladeshis. This also means that the family circumstances of those affected by shutdown differ by ethnicity, with older workers more likely to be living in couples.

The potential for buffering incomes within the household depends on partners’ employment rates, which are much lower for Pakistani and Bangladeshi women. As a result, 29% of Bangladeshi working-age men both work in a shut-down sector and have a partner who is not in paid work, compared with only 1% of white British men.

Bangladeshis, black Caribbeans and black Africans also have the most limited savings to provide a financial buffer if laid off. Only around 30% live in households with enough to cover one month of income. In contrast, nearly 60% of the rest of the population have enough savings to cover one month’s income.

peridito · 01/05/2020 09:34

In yesterday's 5pm address BJ was talking about the timing of UK lockdown compared to other european countries .

I thought he said something along the lines of UK lockdown being at an earlier point on the curve .

Guardian reports his statement thus
He says he put in the lockdown at an earlier stage, relatively, than France and Spain

Is what BJ saying accurate ?.

borntobequiet · 01/05/2020 09:56

I’d be surprised if anything BJ says is accurate, truthful or a straight answer to any question. So probably No. (Happy to be corrected if wring.)

borntobequiet · 01/05/2020 10:00

Wrong
(I heard that too and thought it sounded unlikely)

BigChocFrenzy · 01/05/2020 10:28

imo not true:

This is the 7-day FT rolling average of daily deaths
with the curve for each country offset wrt time, to start at the 3rd death

Some European neighbours have stars, in curve colour, which mark lockdown date , also offset

The star for the UK is later than any other except one, which I think is Italy

(and as they were the first country in Europe to suffer from this crisis, one can understand why their govt delayed with noone to follow except China - but Italy suffered for that delay)

Daily numbers, graphs, analysis thread 7
ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 01/05/2020 10:54

I think it might be true in terms of numbers of deaths at the point of lockdown. There was a chart somewhere that showed this. I remember seeing it on an earlier thread.

peridito · 01/05/2020 11:03

It's funny isn't it ,I like this thread with it's data .Makes me feel that in a uncertain times I can find some certainty.

But I suppose there are always the provisos that conclusions are only as good as the data and if you look at something one way the view might be v different from that given by looking at the same thing another way .

IYSWIM

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 01/05/2020 11:05

This might be helpful in lockdown info. I haven’t had much of a dig through it yet.
www.bsg.ox.ac.uk/research/research-projects/coronavirus-government-response-tracker

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 01/05/2020 11:08

It’s always the case with data isn’t it. My background is financial services and the number of different ways the same underlying numbers can be presented to paint a particular picture is amazing.

Keepdistance · 01/05/2020 11:13

Not only late but
Tube and public transport still running
no masks.
Really let it get round into london whereas italy avoided it being as bad in rome.

BJ kept saying in a week in a few days. Dither and delay. It's not just the lack of lockdown it's the mass events of which many flew in a nd used public transport contaminating that.

I toom dc out of school 2w early. And if i had known the extent of the infection or that the italy returners would go back to schools i might have stopped sooner. As uk never tested more than italy returners and then went to hospitalised our line would have been a lot steeper than shown.

Even if the intent was not necessarily full herd immunity i think likely they wanted as many as possible in this first wave (i dont think he intended lockdown at all) but the more immune this time the smaller the next wave.

I think they need to get immunity testing in cornwall. Need to know vsclondon and other areas.

BigChocFrenzy · 01/05/2020 11:18

chaz if you look at that FT chart, where each country curve starts at 3 deaths,

then the UK had more deaths at lockdown (vertical axis - the stars) than other comparable European countries, except Italy

BigChocFrenzy · 01/05/2020 11:20

imo, it is the curves which give a better representation of the epidemic progression,
less easy to cherry-pick than single numbers in a table

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 01/05/2020 11:22

I will see if I can find the chart but I am certain that on at least one measure the U.K. locked down earlier on the curve. That doesn’t mean the U.K. locked down at the right time but simply that BJ might be right depending on which measure you use. (Obviously he is going to use the most favourable measure).

BigChocFrenzy · 01/05/2020 11:47

I want to keep politics out of these threads, but when a politician of any party makes a statistical claim, then we should analyse this on its own merits.

The "1 billion PPE items" claim was an egregious example of how numbers can be misused
e.g.

Each pair of gloves was counted as two items.
Paper towels also count as PPE

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/04/28/ppe-government-counted-glove-single-item-reach-one-billion-total/

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/coronavirus-nhs-ppe-billion-panorama-gloves-boris-johnson-a9492651.html

Boris may think a paper towel and a used condom are an adequate emergency kit, but most HCPs would diagree

RedToothBrush · 01/05/2020 11:52

And here we are.

Deaths by fine detail. Ons data

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsinvolvingcovid19bylocalareasanddeprivation/deathsoccurringbetween1marchand17april#middle-layer-super-output-areas
Deaths involving COVID-19 by local area and socioeconomic deprivation: deaths occurring between 1 March and 17 April 2020
Provisional counts of the number of deaths and age-standardised mortality rates involving the coronavirus (COVID-19) between 1 March and 17 April 2020 in England and Wales. Figures are provided by age, sex, geographies down to local authority level and deprivation indices.

1.Main points
Between 1 March and 17 April 2020, there were 90,232 deaths occurring in England and Wales that were registered by 18 April; 20,283 of these deaths involved the coronavirus (COVID-19).

When adjusting for size and age structure of the population, there were 36.2 deaths involving COVID-19 per 100,000 people in England and Wales.

London had the highest age-standardised mortality rate with 85.7 deaths per 100,000 persons involving COVID-19; this was statistically significantly higher than any other region and almost double the next highest rate.

The local authorities with the highest age-standardised mortality rates for deaths involving COVID-19 were all London Boroughs; Newham had the highest age-standardised rate with 144.3 deaths per 100,000 population followed by Brent with a rate of 141.5 deaths per 100,000 population and Hackney with a rate of 127.4 deaths per 100,000 population.

The age-standardised mortality rate of deaths involving COVID-19 in the most deprived areas of England was 55.1 deaths per 100,000 population compared with 25.3 deaths per 100,000 population in the least deprived areas

In Wales, the most deprived areas had a mortality rate for deaths involving COVID-19 of 44.6 deaths per 100,000 population, almost twice as high as the least deprived area of 23.2 deaths per 100,000 population.

Statistician's comment
“By mid-April, the region with the highest proportion of deaths involving COVID-19 was London, with the virus being involved in more than 4 in 10 deaths since the start of March. In contrast, the region with the lowest proportion of COVID-19 deaths was the South West, which saw just over 1 in 10 deaths involving coronavirus. The 11 local authorities with the highest mortality rates were all London boroughs, with Newham, Brent and Hackney suffering the highest rates of COVID-19 related deaths.

“People living in more deprived areas have experienced COVID-19 mortality rates more than double those living in less deprived areas. General mortality rates are normally higher in more deprived areas, but so far COVID-19 appears to be taking them higher still.”

Nick Stripe, Head of Health Analysis, Office for National Statistics.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 01/05/2020 11:59

Robert Giffen in the Economic Journal in 1892
“An old jest runs to the effect that there are three degrees of comparison among liars. There are liars, there are outrageous liars, and there are scientific experts. This has lately been adapted to throw dirt upon statistics. There are three degrees of comparison, it is said, in lying. There are lies, there are outrageous lies, and there are statistics.”

Nobody is sure where the original phrase comes from (it is neither Disraeli nor Mark Twain) but it still holds good.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 01/05/2020 12:02

Red
It would be interesting to see the correlation between risk factors eg smoking, comorbidities and obesity and deprivation.

LabStaff · 01/05/2020 12:16

Can someone post a link to the graphs where deaths are reassigned to when they actually occurred? Thanks!