This is concerning

[owlstwooting]

Significant alert in respect of Children and Paediatric shock. It has been reported that over the past three weeks, there has been a rise in the number of Children presenting with a multisystem inflammatory state requiring intensive care.

Looks legit, sadly

mobile.twitter.com/ThePalpitations/status/1254529121134264322

What is this though that strikes such fear because as I said it’s main issue is it’s infectious and contagious nature coupled with lack of immunity.

Chicken pox can have awful complications, a friend of DD has permanent brain damage. Yet we throw chicken pox parties. I nearly lost mine to scarlet fever. Another friend lost a child to meningitis.

Children are far more suspectible to those than to this

That said I suspect having written down my personal experiences with other virus it may explain why I am not terrified of this one for my children

Funny that. The tweet referenced in the 1st place has now been deleted and the other link leads to what his know as Big Pharma a US health care rip off company as they all are if not mistaken. In other words. Here we’ve come up with a new idea to make more money from you by scaring you as you don’t go to Doctors for every little booboo anymore.

@quartz2208

I think the constant wall to wall media coverage and alarmist newspaper headlines have created such a culture of panic now.

My dad died of sepsis so I’ve seen that in action and I’m fully aware that my DC are at risk of developing sepsis every time they get any illness at all (as are all children). I have a very low bar when it comes to getting medical attention and I will be that parent that goes back to the GP repeatedly if I feel something isn’t right but I can’t magic away all risks ever as much as I would like to.

I’m very much about perspective and practical ways forward. How can we minimise risk in a proportionate way? What should we be looking out for? Who should we speak to for advice if concerned? What questions should we be asking doctors if we have concerns?

I really think the communication around this whole issue could have been a lot better.

@Sunshinegirl82 same with low bar

I guess as well I think we have had it as well in lockdown. Myself and DD certainly fared worse than DS (weirdly the one who has worried me most in the past) and just as I was getting anxious DD managed to fall down the stairs and got such bad concussion (confused and sick 3 times) she needed a CT. That I think changed things for me as I realised no matter what I did you can’t eliminate risk

And actually even with the fact with the suspected CV she had slight breathing issues and tightness across the chest is was no way as scary as seeing her confused and throwing up in A&E after her tumble

@Shitsgettingcrazy

“Its like that the anxiety is making you jump to conclusions that something is definitely really bad, rather than your education.”

As you know, OP already said they left school at 16. So what’s your point? Other than to make them feel worse?

MeanyMcMeansome

@Sunshinegirl82

I’m saying that aiming to flatten the curve of cases would a better strategy than aiming to squash it to a “manageable” level. I’m saying that it would be a quicker and more sure way to return to something like normality.

This is partly because that is the only strategy that is aiming for something concrete. Eradication of community transmission has been achieved elsewhere. Vaccines, treatments, herd immunity, all are hypothetical possibilities.

It’s also because we don’t know much about the virus yet. Long-term consequences on the immune system being one such thing.

The measures it would take to do that would be substantial. Strong borders, substantial testing and tracing, masks, social distancing and strict lockdown, much stricter PPE standards in healthcare settings. However, there is no need for all of them to be sustainable.

At the point community spread is eradicated, a lot of those measures (e.g. social distancing, masks, lockdown) become largely unnecessary. Then if there are outbreaks, a thorough test and trace system already being in place would mean it would be easy to contain any subsequent outbreaks quickly.

If a vaccine starts to be produced in September, how long do you think it will take to produce sufficient vaccine for every person in the UK and to vaccinate them? If the vaccine needs to be grown in eggs, that takes months. Then you’re past Christmas already. So it’s not necessarily any quicker.

That’s without factoring in production for other countries too. Or that for example the flu vaccine is usually less than 50% effective, so it confers protection on some people but not all.

So just as countries which eliminate the virus would forever be susceptible to its reintroduction, countries that rely on vaccination would be susceptible to outbreaks amongst the unvaccinated or people for whom the vaccine is ineffective.

Herd immunity may well not be achievable. Maybe infection doesn’t confer long-term immunity, maybe the virus mutates too fast for that to be stable.

We are aiming too low, and we are also pinning our hopes on exit strategies which don’t really provide solid solutions.

I’m also not saying we shouldn’t aim for a vaccine or effective treatments. I’m saying that to only aim for a vaccine and/or effective treatment isn’t a robust enough strategy.

You say the plan is to establish a track and trace programme once numbers are low enough for it to be effective. I’m saying that the current lockdown measures in this country aren’t going to achieve that very quickly, especially if we ease measures and see numbers rise again (as in Germany).

Basically, I don’t think we are taking this seriously enough to actually tackle it effectively. And that will mean it takes much longer and causes much more pain (both in terms of human life and economic cost).

@Quartz2208

Ouch! Your poor DD! I hope she is on the mend now.

It’s such a difficult time to keep perspective on things because there are still a lot of unknowns but all the data so far tells us that children are low risk.

All I can do is approach it as I do everything else. Be mindful, know what I’m looking out for as far as possible, seek medical advice promptly if concerned, keep pushing if I think it’s warranted.

Fingers crossed Oxford pull it out of the bag!

@TheStarryNight

Well the reality is that it’s not up to either of us what actually happens so we will have to deal with the reality as it presents itself to us.

I anticipate that reality will mean dealing with a world where encountering COVID is a possibility. I really hope I’m wrong but I’d rather prepare for what I consider to be the most likely scenario,

I can’t see that it would be possible to entirely isolate my DC from the world in the long term so there is a chance they will be exposed to the virus. So for me it’s a question of assessing how significant that risk is. The data so far tells me it’s quite low. Obviously I will do what I can proportionately to minimise any risk to them and if they become unwell I will be monitor them for red flags and hope for the best as I always do.

That is the limit of what I can practically achieve.

Saw Dr Sarah Jarvis talking about this on BBC news channel, so looks like it’s legit. Some very judgemental posts on this thread, I have to say.

The points StarryNight makes about a vaccine are very valid.
The thing is we don’t know which country will be the first to create a good vaccine. Most of them are working on it and there will be different variations and approaches.
Assuming someone, somewhere does come up with a good result, how long will it take to negotiate contracts with other countries, how long will it take to produce, distribute and start an effective vaccination campaign in each country? Which age groups should be vaccinated first? Is it even worth using the vaccine on the very young or the very old? There are a lot of things to consider on the vaccine alone. Also, we need to prepare the young generation for potential future similar pandemics. A particular treatment now could have consequences for their future. We don’t know if there are long term effects from infection with this virus and we won’t know what would be the long term consequences of a brand new vaccine.
We’ll have to accept a degree of long term risk by comparing the current risk. And we don’t fully know what the current risk is.
So having a vaccine in the UK by September or the end if the year is a bit of a pie in the sky.
A vaccine cannot be our only hope as a way back to some normality.
I don’t normally wish for magic to happen but in this case I’m hoping for several breakthroughs.
If one good thing is to come out of this, I’m hoping it will be that more in the younger generation will follow a path into science.
And OP did very well to start this thread - thank you again.

We are aiming too low, and we are also pinning our hopes on exit strategies which don’t really provide solid solutions.I’m also not saying we shouldn’t aim for a vaccine or effective treatments. I’m saying that to only aim for a vaccine and/or effective treatment isn’t a robust enough strategy.
Starry yy I agree with you completely on this.

I’m not saying it’s not true but it’s not proven it’s because of coronvirus , it could be. There are less than 20 children have been affected so far, if it’s caught in time it is a good outcome, not one child has died in the UK because of this syndrome but they have been very ill, that’s why people need to be aware and if at all worried get medical help but it is still very rare.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.livescience.com/amp/covid-19-kids-rare-inflammatory-syndrome.html

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52003804

You make a good point Starry. I think that getting the virus down as low as 'possible' is the govt's aim, and the lower they get it the more options we will have for opening back up. It would be better economically and more reassuring in the long term if transmission could be got down as close to zero as you suggest, as you point out without that we don't have much of a back up plan without a vaccine or treatment. My concern is that because we started lockdown etc with a high case count, doing that would take a length and/or strictness of lockdown that people wrongly or rightly won't tolerate.

I don’t disagree that a vaccine isn’t a given but what difference does that make on a practical level to dealing with potential COVID infections in our children? Or dealing with the risk of this potential complication?

Unless you plan to isolate children until a full and complete exit to this is found which (it seems) will certainly not be before the end of this year regardless of the strategy followed. There will therefore be an ongoing small risk to children from COVID.

On a practical level, the take home for me on this is that I would seek urgent medical attention at any sign of a high temp combined with a rash (to be honest I would have done anyway) or any other worrying symptoms and I will add to my list of questions (the first of which is always “could it be sepsis?”) “could this be Kawasaki disease or TSS?”.

Yes contact tracing and testing is the only way forward but my concern is actually there is no solid way forward that doesn’t ultimately have to accept some balance of risk of this. But how long can such a rigorous system take place for? Yes it can last until a vaccine but how long will that be
There is every chance this will become endemic. We can hope that means that the level of immunity we have means it becomes like myself and DD has it an unpleasant week off

New Zealand don’t have a back up plan either. Yes they have eradicated it but that pretty much means staying locked off from the world for awhile

There are no perfect choices in this and I think we are going to have to learn to live with that

apple.news/AvtVsfCqNQna_f-iWunEGqw

Apologies for the Daily Fail link but the expert they are quoting seems well placed to give advice.

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8266815/Prof-Russell-Viner.html

Ahhh, it’s professor Viner again...

Is what he’s saying massively controversial? Numbers are small, it’s being looked into, access the NHS is the usual way. Where else can we go with it at this point?

.......

The NHS alert likened the new syndrome to Kawasaki disease, a condition causing leaky blood vessels that usually affects children under five years old.

But scientists and doctors advising Societi, the UK Kawasaki disease foundation, said on Tuesday that hospital admissions data did not yet point to a link with coronavirus.

The group, which includes doctors from Great Ormond Street and Bristol Royal Hospital for Children, said it welcomed the PHE investigation but pointed out that admissions for Kawasaki disease had fallen compared to the same period last year.

In a statement, the group said: "Fewer cases of Kawasaki disease than would be normally expected at this time of year are currently being seen, not more.

"Kawasaki disease is a seasonal inflammatory disorder peaking in the winter and spring, and whilst no infection has ever been proven to be the sole trigger, the scientific community believe that any one of many infections may trigger Kawasaki disease in susceptible children.

"We are aware of recent delayed presentations of Kawasaki disease because of initial incorrect diagnoses of Covid-19, resulting in adverse coronary outcomes due to delayed institution of treatment. During the last Sars epidemic, the same links to new cases of Kawasaki disease were reported, but these have since been disproven."

A source on the committee said there was a level of "anger" at the decision to make the NHS alert public before gathering enough evidence to prove a link to coronavirus.

Meanwhile, other countries announced that they had launched similar investigations into a reported rise in children needing critical treatment after contracting coronavirus.

In northern Italy, one of the world's hardest-hit areas in the pandemic, doctors have reported large numbers of children under the age of nine with severe cases of what appears to be Kawasaki disease.

The Spanish Pediatric Association said doctors had seen children either testing positive for Covid-19 or its antibodies suffering abdominal pain, vomiting and diarrhoea in the last two weeks.

The children were otherwise in good health but their condition could deteriorate within hours into shock, with tachycardia and hypotension. Most cases were school aged, with symptoms overlapping with Kawasaki disease or toxic shock syndrome, the organisation said.

Profess Simon Kenny, the NHS national clinical director for children and young people, said: "Thankfully, Kawasaki-like diseases are very rare, as currently are serious complications in children related to Covid-19, but it is important that clinicians are made aware of any potential emerging links so that they are able to give children and young people the right care fast.

"The advice to parents remains the same – if you are worried about your child for whatever reason, contact NHS 111 or your family doctor for urgent advice, or 999 in an emergency. And if a professional tells you to go to hospital, please go to hospital."

The Department of Health said officials were not aware of any confirmed deaths from the new syndrome.

I think that's probably behind a paywall.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/04/28/no-evidence-yet-back-link-coronavirus-mystery-syndrome-children/

I’m angry the media have made this headline news and scaring parents before they have all the facts, as if parents don’t have enough to worry about, surely the bigger story is over 3rd of people dying are from care homes.

Well, it's as you say. Schools are not going back until September. This makes it easy for everyone to live with it as the 'safer' option whether it's true or not.

It’s not just about schools though, it’s about parents scared to death to even let their children in the garden, this isn’t helping, some poor kids will be locked up until next year at this rate.