Posters who want lockdown lifted

[DianaT1969]

I'm seeing an increase in threads where the poster is impatient for exact details of an exit strategy (even though we can all imagine what it will involve - phased re-opening of some stores and businesses etc,,). Plus we're hearing the usual cries of lockdown is hurting society more than it's helping.
Spain saw a spike in new infections today - the highest since their peak 3 weeks ago. To these posters I'd like to ask what your thread titles will be during our spikes in infections and deaths after this lockdown?
What I'm really getting at is that you don't seem to understand that we're in this for the long haul. There is no quick fix, back to normal.

I would like to think that the Government has a strategy that they have thought through (using the "science" they love so much) of how this might work and trust that we are intelligent enough to realise it may have to be tweaked and changed as things change

It is telling as well though that Wales and Scotland clearly think this approach of not telling us is shit as well given that they have started to give some indication of it.

I mean the whole bloody point of Brexit was that we had a Government who was able to make decisions for themselves. And now they need to they seem like a deer stuck in the headlights unable to move. Most believe the reason they arent telling us a plan is simply that they dont HAVE one

And it is causing people to start the process themselves. Even a vague map of how it will be from May 7th onwards I think would stop people going out this weekend.

We've seen the lockdown. We don't like it. The thing is, we haven't seen what the lockdown prevented. I have a feeling many of us would have liked that even less.

The lockdown buys us time to prepare. We are still preparing. We do not have PPE. We do not have adequate testing. We do not have adequate tracing. We do not have low enough numbers of new cases for tracing to be effective. We do not know which treatments work. We do not know which releases have the most effect on transmission.

All of those things above can be solved in a matter of weeks. If we release before we have some of those things in place, then everything we have done so far will have been a waste of time.

And with mental health it is a mixed picture. My DP actually works in mental health. Some people's mental health has got worse since lock down, but quite a few their mental health has improved.

I am with you Cantory and Op and I wont be praising Domino like some sort of fool because it suits my own narrative.

Though she says some correct points. I feel they all seem to miss the point of exponential growth if we realise again which could put the Ro value above 3.

Yes its hard. Yes I understand that. There are issues but its still needed and it won't be forever.

You seriously think dominas comment that has untruths in it is brilliant?
So just one of the untruths, no GPs have not stopped services at all. They are saying if you have covid symptoms or are in shielded group not to go to reception but to phone. But routine things are still happening. My DS had routine blood tests last week. Totally routine. The nurse did say people have cancelled lots of routine blood tests, but that is their choice, the service is still operating.
Personally if you are low risk I think you should still have routine blood tests.

And it is causing people to start the process themselves. Even a vague map of how it will be from May 7th onwards I think would stop people going out this weekend.

Agree!

I think the reason the government isn’t giving us any information about how we’ll ease out of lockdown, is possibly because they believe some people will see it as a green light.

Therefore they want to build up a sense of ‘caution’ before we get there. Hence The depressing speech the other day about social distancing for a year.

I’d like to think that’s what they’re doing anyway, and secretly they’ve got it all sussed.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

All of those things above can be solved in a matter of weeks. If we release before we have some of those things in place, then everything we have done so far will have been a waste of time.

Agree! We are finding out info all of the time. We don't need to rush it.

That 29 year old who said he didn't want to die in vain. Stay at home. Just makes me so sad.

Some people's mental health has got worse since lock down, but quite a few their mental health has improved.

Anecdotal but I also know several people's who have majority improved their mental health through lockdown.

First of all we don’t even really have a proper lock down compared with other countries , and even then there are still a LOT of people who just don’t think it applies to them . If this continues I think the lock down will last longer . Also to the person who says other deaths except covoid are higher , well I think because of the way up to a few days ago the deaths were recorded those deaths do include deaths caused by covoid , even though the patients had other illnesses . This argument has been discussed before.

Personally I think there will be a phased return . Hopefully the nhs will pick up other appointments soon . ( btw my mother had a stroke and she was attended to very quickly and treated in hospital) then if businesses can adhere to the social distancing rules those outside the vunerable lists will start to return .

However we need to continue with a huge volunteer army to continue to help the people who will need still to shield . Because I can see them shielding for a long time while worldwide research continues . And yes there will be people in the non vunerable section that will lose their lives

It is hard , especially for the elderly . I was in tears today talking to a lady stuck in a flat on her own . So we all need to make sure they have calls and shopping still delivered etc.

There is still a lot of preparation to do to ensure any lifting of lockdown works.

Reality is always far more complex than broad brushed statements like lock down is increasing mental health problems, or lifting lock down will stop small businesses folding.
Black and white thinking is not helpful in life.
So just two above examples. Lots of mental health professionals are saying some people with existing mental health problems are getting worse under lock down, and some are getting better, in some cases a lot better. A lot of what the mentally healthy population not directly affected by people dying are experiencing is normal anxiety and not indicative of mental health problems.

Lots of people were already avoiding pubs, restaurants, nail bars, etc before lock down. Some of those business owners were interviewed on TV saying the government was avoiding a lock down so it did not have to support them. If lock down is lifted tomorrow some people would go back to those businesses, but many people will not go back until they think it is safe. This makes a lot of businesses not financially viable.
Understand the complexity.

@Cantory My GP's practice is ONLY dealing with people over the phone. There are no face-to-face services at all. Is it really so impossible to accept that what is happening in one person's life is not necessarily the norm? Healthcare was dire in this area before CV in terms of both quantity and quality. It's practically non-existent now except for Covid and it's bloody terrifying that our hospital is seeing a death rate of over 20%. I am genuinely pleased that some people are still receiving care for a wide range of issues but it's of no practical help to those of us who aren't.

I think for some people there's been a fundamental misunderstanding of the purpose of lockdown. I think a lot of people thought if we stay in our homes long enough it would be sufficient enough to eradicate the virus. This was never the point. The point was to buy the nhs time to prepare. When the nhs is ready certain freedoms will be given back and then removed again if it looks like it's being overwhelmed

This absolutely

The lockdown will not end suddenly. It will happen gradually and after waves of lockdown. Strict lockdown then a more relaxed lockdown, then strict again and then relaxed and so on. This was explained to us repeatedly but it's as if no one has been watching the briefings and science explanations

There was another comment earlier that said the lockdown will, or should, last until the second half of next year and the comment was shot down, but it's actually a real possibility.

There was another comment earlier that said the lockdown will, or should, last until the second half of next year and the comment was shot down, but it's actually a real possibility

Lockdown in its current form absolutely will not last until the second half of next year. Some restrictions may.

Yes its not about what lockdown lifted its about wanting to feel that the English Government have a clue what they are doing.

Why are all other countries starting to be able to say what the next 2-3 months will look like and ours doesnt

I think it is untrue to say GPs have all but shutdown. I think it is true to say that it is

(a) harder to access appointments and most have a video/phone triage first
(b) appointments are being cancelled if not deemed necessary (my Dad's very slow growing cancer check up has been
(c) Treatments have changed for some cancer patients
(d) some however are going ahead. My Aunts cancer removal operation took place at the start of April

I have an easy lock down so could easily say I want to stay like this but I know we can't and I know lock down is causing extreme stress and financial worries for a lot of people.

I would still be very cautious and won't go to restaurants when they open (sorry). I won't go to busy places. Also I will refuse to kiss and hug friends who are tactile. I didn't like it before. They know I'm a worrier.

@BamboozledandBefuddled I don't see how they can provide a service like that. I know some surgeries are offering telephone appointments and only seeing patients if it is needed. Because most things people go to the GP for are minor and can be sorted over the phone.
And the statement I was responding to was not posted as, this is what is happening at my GP surgery, but this is what GP surgeries are doing.

The government are telling us what the next few months will look like, though. This is what Matt Hancock said earlier today:

Easing the lockdown depends on the speed at which the number of new cases of Covid-19 falls and that is as yet “unknown”, the health secretary, Matt Hancock, has said.

The number of new cases is being tracked through hospital admissions, through a new testing study in the community announced on Wednesday, and data that will be gathered from people coming forward for tests under an expansion of the programme.

However, he added that there was no prospect of easing the lockdown yet, and that cases needed to drop substantially before the next phase of isolating infected people and their contacts could be truly effective.

-------
So, this is the plan.

Test more to ensure the amount of new cases we are detecting is accurate.

Wait for cases to drop substantially from where they are now to allow contact tracing.

Then, and I am presuming this bit, with the leeway gained from being able to isolate many more people in the transmission chain, and the associated drop in transmission rate, allow a gradual release of lockdown.

What will be "unlocked" first?

Given that different countries around Europe are all a bit ahead of where we are, and that they're all trying different things, don't you think it would be more sensible to see which ones do best, rather than arbitrarily committing to one particular solution in advance?

How can he actually put more detail into the plan without bullshitting us at this stage?

My GP is telephone only. Great when a relative has neurological symptoms! Same relative is losing vision - clinic for that is cancelled too. I also have evil toothache - no go on the dentistry - I’ll live but again, not fun.

Everywhere seems slightly different - but that’s the reality in this area.

Lockdown in its current form absolutely will not last until the second half of next year. Some restrictions may

Yes that's what I suggested in my previous paragraph

Lockdown is not intended to be the same restrictions all the time. It's a fluid thing depending on what's needed at a certain point in the timeline of the epidemic and this was explained to us right from the start. It may go like this

Current lockdown lasts 12 weeks
Then 12 weeks of lighter lockdown restrictions
Then current style lockdown again for 12 weeks
Could be 6 weeks each time or whatever but repeat for however long it takes

This is why it's so important to stick by the restrictions now because it is being timed on a scientific basis of how the epidemic is behaving now.

This is a new virus and so how it will behave and spread in the future may change and the restrictions and plans will then be implemented according to those changes. It's an ongoing situation and no one has a crystal ball to see what to do next month ir even next week.

Spanish Flu lasted about 2 years? and it was the second spike that was the deadliest, largely because people thought it had gone away

As the OP said, along with what the experts are saying, we are in this for the long haul

@DominaShantotto Sorry your GP is doing that. Better to say what your experience is though than assuming everywhere is the same as you previously did.
I have not come across another GP who refuses to see anyone. What seems more normal is telephone appointments in the first instance.

Our GP also isn’t seeing patients.

Once again - the lockdown was never intended for us to cower in our living rooms until a magic vaccine came out and so no one caught this. It was intended to be like a tap to control the flow of how many cases there were in circulation and in the hospital system so that the NHS had a better chance of coping and we didn't end up having to decide who got the one ventilator left. It was never ever some mystical magical charm to keep us all indoors so the virus got bored and buggered off away. It is never going to work like that.

I think the way people are interpreting this as incorrectly too. As Nellodee says to keep it low enough we need limited cases a day and this would take yours for us all to be infected. Angela Merkel explains it quite nicely too. I am not saying you are wrong but I think others are interpreting it incorrectly with regards to everyone getting it and how fast this can be done.

Are you sure they do not see patients they need to after a telephone appointment?

Years not yours