So we are predicted to have the highest death toll in Europe, due to systemic errors made by this government. Do you trust the government to get us out of lock down safely?

[ssd]

I don't. They've f**d up too much. NHS managers are begging for PPE, NHS workers are dying.

This government have really really let us down.

We are predicted to have 40,000 deaths by the end of this.

The only silver lining is is that Labour might get its act together now Keir Starmer is in charge. Things can't get any worse.

And if any tory bots start saying 'at least it's not Corbyn'.. Well save your breath. No one could have made a bigger mess than Boris and Co.

Most other European countries lockdowns banned people from going out for exercise. So, we have had more freedom to go outside with perhaps a corresponding increase in people contracting the virus and subsequent deaths.

The NHS isn’t overwhelmed so there is no reason we should have locked down sooner.

No, this actually suggests that we locked down at exactly the right time doesn't it? People who would have otherwise survived now aren't dying just because there wasn't a ventilator available. Which was the aim all along?

@CaroleFuckinBaskin yes!!! People are really not getting this! We don’t want another spike in the winter. You realise we have herd immunity to things like measles. We just got it through a vaccination. We have no vaccination so there is no alternative than we build by that immunity naturally. That is why we should not look at numbers until this thing is over. Countries that suppress it hard are going to experience a huge second wave.

All the science and evidence around the world says thousands of kids WILL NOT die.

If a child has underlying issues I am sure their parents are keeping them safely at home and will continue to do so until they feel it’s safe

Ah well. At least we're not in Brazil or Belarus, whose presidents don't believe the virus exists and are forcing people to expose themselves to infection.

Johnson (please stop calling him "Boris" as though he was your mate, or anything other than an amoral narcissist) and his troupe of clowns have still handled it really badly, though.

@Northernsoullover & you think the public would have obeyed? I may be wrong but didn't they warn that older people may have to self isolate, then it was vulnerable people so they planted the seed & many did before the official "lockdown".

Obviously the PPE was a massive mistake but I think some things have been handled well. My mum is on the shielded list & has received 2 care packages, the cooperation of private healthcare, the transformation of buildings into hospitals, some of the financial measures. I think it's impossible to not make mistakes & hindsight is a wonderful thing.

@Northernsoullover Germany won’t keep a lid on it. They are turning the taps on again to let it spread. Angela Merkel herself said that 70% of the population will (need to) get it (to create group immunity).

Most other European countries lockdowns banned people from going out for exercise.

Which ones?

@CaroleFuckinBaskin yes sorry if I wasn’t clear. Indeed I think we locked down just at the right time. Any sooner was unnecessary

Bool is right - we need to remember that 70-80% of us will get it with MOST getting it v mildly

I’m sure lots already have

I swear some posters won't be happy unless we take the approach of Philippine's Duterte

How do you think Jeremy Corbyn would have handled it? Might be worth thinking about

@tontie Spain and Italy. But that was because their healthcare system was overwhelmed. Ours isn’t.

Unfortunately most people are oblivious in their privelege and don't give a crap.

Agree! Also so many seem unaware that their option to never leave the house relies on lots of other people risking their lives to facilitate that.

@Bool thanks the poster said most European countries which confused me.

@Bool
Scientists are now discovering children often have no immunity and in younger adults, it is not strong. From what I’ve read, the older the adult, the higher the antibodies. From circa age 40+. However, the over 70’s and are supposed to do whatever they can not to get it. Lots of over 60’s and younger are doing the same. Then there is the shielding group.

On removing all of the non or slightly immune people (I haven’t crunched the numbers), I don’t see how the herd can ever reach 60%+.... especially as the length of time an individual is of immune is still unknown.

To me, this is a golden, perhaps unattainable population percentage. As a result, covid19 or slight mutations thereof will continue to circulate until the entire population - or at least 60% - can be vaccinated. The government itself is even saying the same by informing us shielding will continue until a vaccination is produced and distributed.

The above does not seem compatible with the herd immunity theory. Unless you’re counting vaccination as a way of achieving this.

I think the true figues is likely already 20k can't remember exactly but it is the difference from the 5y average. Or the deaths in hospital 13k? Plus the at home and care homes so around another 50%.
Anyway even if we are at peak now the other 70k plus in hospital etc still need to survive. Plus any continuing infections.

Anyway if 1m infected 20k dead would be the 2% rate. However for immunity we need 70% say of 66m and we have only 1/66. Just another 904k to die then...
This is why other countries are saying social distancing would need to remain till a vax...
But in addition to all those deaths there are the 2.5% who had to be in icu and recover and the 15% who had to go in for oxygen.

They need to prove basically there actually is all these asymptomatic people.

You cant go out to exercise in Spain. Just shopping once or twice a week, had to be nearest food shop to your flat, the police can stop yiu and ask for proof of address. You can walk your dog but only close to your flat. My son has been stuck in his flat with a 6year and 2 years old fir the last 6 weeks. Possibly 2 or 3 more to go.

@socialcommentator - new Tory bot, keep up the good work!

I don't think the government has done an awful job in this. Will there be lessons to learn - yes, undoubtedly. Hindsight is a great thing. Science is also evolving on this at a fast rate, so advise changes as a result.

And like it or not the economy is important. If the economy went into free fall and the rescue measures such as furlough etc were not put in place, unemployment would be through the roof, and no money would be available for nhs due to the lack of tax take. Poverty kills too. In fact Italy showed signs of social unrest which was linked to people not having money to buy food.

The timing for lockdown was vital - too soon and people get restless and threaten to break it before the peak. The purpose of lockdown is to ensure the nhs isn't overwhelmed.

oh, God - a Starmer cheerleader under the guise of concern.

So we should be happy that we have the predicted highest death toll in Europe then? That's OK, that's acceptable? And our only answer to that is at least it isn't Corbyn?

@Mummyoflittledragon sorry I am a bit lost as to what you are talking about. Nobody has immunity to this virus. Nobody contains the antibodies. It is a novel virus. 60% of us need to catch it to generate the antibodies to them stop the spread.

Yes we don’t know yet definitively that if we have had it we are immune or whether it will mutate fast to then render that immunity useless. We just have to pray the answer to the first is ‘yes we are’ the the second ‘no it doesn’t.’

I think they've done well. There is a lot of rubbish and sensationalist headlines (as always), a lot of suspect data turned into beautifully presented graphs. They have spare capacity, have flattened the curve. Absent a cure/vaccine and notwithstanding ambient differences by country such as population density, health/age of population, density of population, it's highly likely that over time the infection rates and deaths will be similar in all countries with equivalent health care standards. Only the height of the peaks and the duration of the peaks will be different. Time will tell. Everyone is painfully aware that poverty/recession/austerity all kill people too.

The government is the one that the public voted in