So we are predicted to have the highest death toll in Europe, due to systemic errors made by this government. Do you trust the government to get us out of lock down safely?

[ssd]

I don't. They've f**d up too much. NHS managers are begging for PPE, NHS workers are dying.

This government have really really let us down.

We are predicted to have 40,000 deaths by the end of this.

The only silver lining is is that Labour might get its act together now Keir Starmer is in charge. Things can't get any worse.

And if any tory bots start saying 'at least it's not Corbyn'.. Well save your breath. No one could have made a bigger mess than Boris and Co.

I genuinely really hate the tories and have done since I had an understanding of politics. Despite this I don’t know how any other government option we had would have done any better - I love Corbyn but his party were so uncohesive they probs wouldn’t have been able to decide on anything due to not wanting to be seen to back him.

For me it’s not so much the decisions they’ve made but the fact that the NHS has been subject to cuts and underfunding for so long that it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth seeing all these platitudes from the tories about how great it is. Then maybe you shouldn’t have cut so much funding to it!

HOWEVER, in general I’m trying to be positive about the government, because I feel they’re sort of trying to to their best and frankly I can’t take my usual level of cynicism and negativity towards them right now. I need some kind of hope!

This government can't decide what it's supposed to do. Apparently going back to contact tracing now after abandoning it. They can't seem to make decisions!

I agree OP the people coming on here and supporting the governments response are utterly ridiculous! It's like there's some sort of cult of Boris where he and his government can do no wrong.
Everyday on the news we hear more and more of their failings, delays and missing targets they have set themselves ! How much more evidence do those in denial need!

think they've done great personally, but I know the "you did too little/too much" brigade will be along to run down their own country as per usual

I’d love to know how anyone can square this line with the fact that we almost certainly have had as many deaths already as Italy/Spain (once care home deaths have been included into the U.K. total, which studies have shown usually account for at least 40% of total deaths). So if current hospital recorded deaths are at 14,500, realistically the U.K. is already at 25,000 total deaths.

And Spain and Italy have their peaks firmly behind them.

Even going by incomplete official figures, which do not include care home deaths, we are the 5th worst country in the world by deaths per million citizens, behind only France, Belgium, Italy and Spain.
We didn’t stop major events, we didn’t lock down, we didn’t test and we didn’t get PPE to those who needed it. And even today we have ridiculous scenes like the Met in London.

@tontie probably because he's on a walking salary and protecting his own money. The Tories will always be a party of the rich!

Well we won’t know will we until the subsequent waves of the virus have passed, later in the year or next year or whenever.

And we have to balance deaths not from the virus, but from medical resources being diverted or from the recession that is to come.

And we also need to be confident that every country is counting Coronavirus deaths according to the same criteria.

So I think any kind of predictions that extrapolate from current figures are inherently unreliable.

@inkpaperstars indeed we have to pray that when we have had it we have the antibodies necessary to stop us catching it again and also that it doesn’t mutate quickly.

On time to reach herd immunity - it depends how fast this has spread already which sadly we have no idea of yet.

Im not assuming it i calculated it.
Out of cases in hospital.
As a pp said thiugh it's possible that the mildly affect wont be immune...
Which would mean kids keep getting it until they are old enough to develop antibodies.
On the other hand people calculating lower death rates are assuming much higher asymptomatic.
It may be as say s korea and germany are lower but that could be other factors heath etc.
But we cant just expect the same result without doing the same.
Germany and S korea tested and contained
Us/italy and spain didnt

If initial dose matters then us all getting it and spreading it all over will increase the number getting it more severely.
Im mean even in your own house if other countries isolate away from their family but with a mask too that will have a different effect.
Choosing herd still is an economic decision and thats frankly quite crap as without the people working in the county there wouldnt be an economy we should be trying to protect the population.
Providing care for a number of covid orphans might be quite expensive too.

I

One half of the Media and MSM hate the Gov because they consider they imposed the lockdown too late.
The other half seem to hate the Gov for imposing a Lockdown at all.

I agree in one paper it's end the lockdown, save the economy & in another it's stricter lockdown

@casino218 perhaps still out there working though

Scaremongering again.

Non-'essential' workplaces have been allowed to stay open all along, so long as measures to protect staff are in place, and those staff cannot work from home.

Schools are not 'opening up' - in any case some have remained open for key workers' children from the start.

The only place I've seen that predicts the UK to have the highest European death toll was an American report smarmying up to Trump saying that it was worse here than there. Which it isn't. Just look at New York.

Aside from all that, 40,000 potential deaths in a population of over 65 million is a fraction of what it could otherwise have been.

@Cam77 you do realise that Italy and Spain have also got many many deaths outside hospital that haven’t been counted. Indeed there were nursing homes completely abandoned by their staff in Spain and their residents left to die. Appalling.

@tontie aren't we all. There isn't really a massive choice is there!

When it’s all over count it up

I don't think the government acted quickly enough but even if they had undoubtedly a lot of the morons would have ignored any advice given.

We quite likely will have the highest death rate in Europe and lot of that is due to the UK being far too overcrowded.

No one seemed that bothered by the fact that there are too many people here especially the people having 3, 4, 5 or even more children but now one of the consequences can be seen.

It’s not mutating quickly. That is one positive.

@tontie, so why say that then? Do you actually think people will be happy if we have the highest death toll in Europe as predicted?

Can you explain yourself?

Is this partly based on the IHME research that initially said 66000 deaths. I think for some reason they either didnt have enough data or modelled it wrong

The current update www.healthdata.org/covid/updates has us much more in line with France/Italy/Spain. And this

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8229275/Is-Europes-coronavirus-death-toll-DOUBLE-official-figures.html (apologies Daily Mail) shows that we arent the only one.

The PPE and testing issue is where we have been let down. Lockdown well I dont think that will make that much difference

Totally agree with the OP 🤷🏻‍♀️

Are we though?

Look at today's number from Belgium with the care home corrections.

Who is to say that is not the case cross Europe?

It seem every country is counting the way it suits them, following on China's great example.

We have a huge population, London is a huge transport hub, all this must come into consideration.

@casino218 no i'm working from home , not actively saving lives or risking my own.

OP
Get out of lockdown safely.It hasn’t gone away.If you don’t even understand that principle then you are not in a position to criticise anyone

@terkwoys, smarmying up to trump?? The ignorance here would be funny if it wasn't so serious.

“do you think someone like me who does detest this government actually enjoys these statistics? The highest death toll in Europe??”

OP, don’t you mean 5th highest death toll in Europe? Because Italy (21,647), Spain (18,579) and France (17,146) have higher death tolls than the 12,868.

Boris talked of herd immunity, he didn’t take the spread of the Coronavirus seriously. The UK has a population of around 55 million people and has now reached a shocking death rate of 14,5000. Does that include the deaths of people in nursing homes?

Australia has a population of 25 million, there have been 61 deaths. People are more spread out but the PM was slow to act and is still trying to keep schools open. The Premiers of each state stepped in and closed the borders and most have shut the schools. It’s slowed the rate of infection considerably.

Sweden with a population of 10 million has has 1400 deaths. The government didn’t take the pandemic seriously and have been heavily criticised. The amount of deaths against other Scandinavian countries is considerably higher.

The leaders of the countries who were slow to take action have been the cause of many deaths that could have been avoided.