Shocked by the news coming from care homes

[YogaFaker]

It seems that really vulnerable old people and those adults with conditions that need round-the-clock care are the sacrificial lambs in this government's inept non policies for dealing with COVID-19.

I find this shocking, really shocking. People are of value whatever their age. Yet the policy seems to have been to let them die, if they contract C-19.

There was a thread here or on aIBU which made claims for the preferential treatment of elderly people in this pandemic. I don't think so. The vulnerable elderly have been totally let down.

Shame on us.

Wether the state cares about "old people" depends on how you define old I guess. 70 years old, comfortable pension, living independently, capable of voting - yes the state cares very much.

Very elderly, or poor, and unable to support themselves either due to finances, physical or mental conditions.... The evidence suggests they don't care very much at all.
Not just from this crisis, but from the state of the care sector in general. You can tell how much we value looking after the vulnerable by how much we pay those who care the old and the vulnerable.

Re homes being private and PPE, this has bene brought up.

They usually buy PPE as you would expect as they are a private entity, but the supply chain isn't there.

So it's become an 'NHS' problem because the lack of PPE everywhere is all being bundled together as an (obviously big!) problem.

The staff aren’t likely to be dreadfully unwell with it though so the protective measures are for the elderly residents.

Staff have DIED.

Maybe people should think more carefully in future about putting parents into care homes?

@AlexisCarringtonColbyDexter
The average age of people in care homes is 85, over 2/3 have dementia and the average life expectancy is 2.5 years.
Can you provide a link to your source on this please? I'm quite surprised by it. When I visited my DH's nan in a 'retirement' home from the age of 95 -99 there was only one with dementia.
I know retirement homes aren't nursing homes but I am wondering, whether or not it is included as a care home in respect of the Govt's provision of PPE to the staff and testing of staff and the people who live there.
If not, then that probably begs the question of what is happening in them.

@Oldmrswasherwoman
I am very sorry for your loss to this dreadful disease. I am pleased your FIL's passing was peaceful. It is still very sad.

What is the point of aggressively treating these people?

Aggressive treatment, no. Palliative care and relief, absolutely.

Also, homes should absolutely not be taking new patients with Covid-19. That's just a death sentence for the rest of the residents.

In addition, there is the issue if these deaths being airbrushed out of the statistics. Also on the channel 4 news report was a whistleblower from death registration who said that deaths were not being registered as Covid, even if it was suspected, if the resident hasn't been able to see a GP in the previous 28 days.

Great post larrygrylls including the point about the numbers, ages and ways in which people die of cancer all the time in the UK, which largely goes unnoticed.

And that a child's life was worth more than an elderly woman's life

If the choice has to be between saving a child and saving an elderly person's life, anyone would choose the child.

These decisions are made all the time already.

"Ideally, care home staff would be living on site to stop the spread."

Yes, I agree.

And visiting care workers.

I'm sure that they are all being as careful as they can, who knows how many others they are in contact with-directly or indirectly?

It's a worry.

Many care homes were not "making huge profits" from elderly patients as a pp suggests.
Care homes going bankrupt has been a big problem in recent years.

I think we should be aware as a a society that the Protect the NHS messaging, means precisely that: protect the NHS. That means the NHS's needs are prioritised, NHS PPE is prioritised, NHS testing of staff is prioritised,. Other sectors are consequently deprioritised. That includes social care.

It may be the only way to minimise deaths in the cicumstances. The value of transporting already fragile people from care homes into hospitals to die, seems limited, given there is no treatment and the available medical interventions are traumatic. But I we also have to accept it's not an oversight: it is the heart of the policy. Protect the NHS means prioritising the continued functioning of the NHS above other sectors. And the whole clap for the NHS, raise money for the NHS, heroes of the NHS narrative builds into that.

I'm not saying Protect the NHS is necessarily wrong; I am not sure what I would do differently. But when there is not enough PPE, money or tests to go around, deprioritising care homes is the outcome.

What do you count as aggressive treatment though? Resuscitation certainly, incubation probably but what about pressurised oxygen? The worst thing about COVID (and believe me the symptoms are many and varied and all of them shitty) is the feeling that you cant breath - its utterly terrifying. I dont care how old, or frail or demented someone is, if they need oxygen they should be given it.

Importing COVID cases to care homes is criminal- it's pretty much a death sentence for residents and possibly also for staff. The lack of testing and ppe in care homes is criminal also. These people are not going to be part of "the herd", they are just going to die.

And I know that you can't catch cancer, or prevent someone getting cancer with certain policies but there are policies which mean certain people might not get a particular lifesaving treatment because of where they live for example.

@NotEverythingIsBlackandwhite

I didnt quote that statistic- that was someone else.

Retirement homes are not the same as care homes.

There are two types of home- residential and care/nursing homes.
People in care/nursing homes require actual nursing and medical interventions and medication that would require a nurse to be on site. Therefore, they do mainly include people with dementia and significant health issues as to require some element of nursing skill.

Residential homes are different and the people there are much more independent.

"These decisions are made all the time already"

Absolutely. And even pre-covid it was not at all uncommon for someone in a care home to be made as comfortable as possible and given palliative care rather than be transferred to hospital to die there instead.

"Ideally, care home staff would be living on site to stop the spread."

Sorry, but that is totally throwing care home workers under a bus. They are not paid very well at all and probably have their own families to look after. Personally I wouldn't leave my DC and DH at home for 3 months whilst I looked after someone else's parents. I do not expect them to do that at all.

"The sad thing, to me, is that so many of our elderly end up in these places in the first place."

That's all well & good if you are able to have someone with you & offer the care that they need.

Please don't tar all care homes with the same brush or people who have had to move their parent to one!

In the Sheffield home they are doing a 2 weeks on two weeks off system to minimise the risk of transmission into the home. And whilst you cant insist on that, the fact they are doing it should be applauded.

Please don't tar all care homes with the same brush or people who have had to move their parent to one

Agree. Its easy to say that but when you have an elderly parent with dementia who is urinating all over the house, turning the gas on, is aggressive, and cannot be left for even 5 minutes without being at risk of seriously injuring themselves is not that easy to just keep them at home safely. They need specialist care.

You can tell how much we value looking after the vulnerable by how much we pay those who care the old and the vulnerable.

I disagree but you can tell a lot about society by how we treat the elderly and vulnerable. By that I mean treating them with respect and dignity and not as 'less than'.

I think you have to be careful not to get mixed up between the importance of jobs and the skill involved in carrying out those jobs. We have to pay more to people who have spent years studying in order to be able to carry out their roles.

Although many jobs are very important they can also be classified as unskilled, semi-skiled or skilled. Adverts recruiting for Carers often don't require experience so obviously those jobs are not skilled roles and should not be paid as much as skilled roles. Caring is a very important job but can be an unskilled role.

Many care homes are private enterprises. The Govt don't set pay rates in them, do they?

Some really interesting points here. This particularly:
Importing COVID cases to care homes is criminal- it's pretty much a death sentence for residents and possibly also for staff. The lack of testing and ppe in care homes is criminal also. These people are not going to be part of "the herd", they are just going to die.

But I hope that when I'm an 85 year old, and need medical intervention, I don't get treated by the people who think that my life is worth less than a child's. My life is worth everything to me.

Many care homes were not "making huge profits" from elderly patients as a pp suggests.
Care homes going bankrupt has been a big problem in recent years

Some are making money though. And when the profit margins drop the venture capitalists behind them move on to other investment vehicles. Some of these chains have not bought PPE on the open market because they chose to wait for the government to step in and provide it for free.

And local authorities are making huge savings by exploiting those people who CAN pay to subsidise LA patients. I have a relative paying over £4500 per month for a care home place (funded through the sale of their modest home). LA patients in the same setting pay under £2000.

It's not just a matter of practicality either. My mum and I (currently just my mum) are caring for my dad at home as his dementia progresses (he also has heart and kidney issues) as that's what he wants. The reality is, not only does this significantly impact on my mother's quality of life (he wont tolerate carers) it impacts on his. He was always a gregarious man and now he's totally isolated, wont leave the house, sees no-one but family. Its hard to get him to eat as he sleeps most of the day and is up wanting food and company at 3am. I truly believe he'd be happier in a good care home once he'd settled but he wont hear of it so we will manage at home til we can't manage any more.

Before this all started we told the care home that my Nan is in that we didn't want her to die in hospital. So if she does get it then I really hope they keep her at the home.
People need to consider that some people don't want to die in hospital, so they may have plans in place to have palliative care at the home they live in instead. This may be why some are not being transferred to hospital.
It's not always black and white. You can assume that they are being left to die in a care home. They may have made that choice for themselves.
Honestly, my nans home have been saying since Xmas, that she's not got long left. I'd not be surprised if we receive a call saying she's gone.

@AlexisCarringtonColbyDexter and @larrygrylls absolutely agree.

Diddl,

I am not tarring everyone with the same brush. I am well aware that, given the way our society functions, care homes are often the least bad option for all concerned. And I know that there are some which are very good.

However, the reality is that people with little capacity to complain are cared for by people who are younger and stronger and not their relatives or friends. It is so easy, as many documentaries have shown, for carers to become frustrated and then abusive. Some are just careless and negligent. Who is ever going to know?

Would you want to end in care home? How many can honestly answer ‘yes’ to that question? Out of many people I have asked in ‘real life’ the ones who have wanted to be in care home cited not being a burden on others as the reason, not looking forward to it per se.

There is a massive argument for voluntary euthanasia but that is probably for another thread.

I am assuming terminal COVID patients, just like any terminal patients, have access to morphine and a syringe driver. I really hope that is the case.