Shocked by the news coming from care homes

[YogaFaker]

It seems that really vulnerable old people and those adults with conditions that need round-the-clock care are the sacrificial lambs in this government's inept non policies for dealing with COVID-19.

I find this shocking, really shocking. People are of value whatever their age. Yet the policy seems to have been to let them die, if they contract C-19.

There was a thread here or on aIBU which made claims for the preferential treatment of elderly people in this pandemic. I don't think so. The vulnerable elderly have been totally let down.

Shame on us.

I have just quit working in a care home.
We were told by management that we would not accept covid tested positive patients from hospital. We had it in writing. Last week.
Then we were told that treating a patient with covid was like handling salmonella infected chicken in a kitchen. Again we had that in writing.
We had very basic ppe. But we’re told that the 4 hour disposable masks must be worn for at least a week before being changed.
We don’t have en-suite facilities, washable it’s disposable mop heads. Or even enough hand soap to open all the communal bathrooms.
We did change our uniforms before and after work. We did take our temperatures upon starting work.
On Saturday. We received a call from the hospital. They were discharging a covid positive patient to us. We protested. We called the home manager and area manager. They said we had to accept them. Relatives not to informed. Staff to be informed on arriving at work.
I suggested to the area man anger that a sister home which already had tested positive for covid and had positive residents and deaths should be used. To maintain our negative status as long as possible.
I was told I was stupid, silly and misinformed. I was to be reported to the owners. This would have resulted I. Instant dismissal.
I quit. No more I could do to protect the residents or staff.

Also, the cultures that we need to “learn from” usually involve subservient or at least economically inactive women staying home to deal with everyone’s shit - literally and figuratively

Right? Ive noticed this too. In cultures ive seen who do this its no coincidence thats its always the WOMAN or the female relatives who are having to run around doing everything for everyone, working themselves into the ground and taking responsibility for the care and welfare of everyone in the family. Its never the male relatives is it?
Funny that!

You can always have help for them at home,"

Hahahahaha! Really? Most residents in care homes require 24 hour care. It might be for help in washing, dressing, eating, medication, keeping them safe at night for those with dementia nighttime wondering is common.

Can you imagine how many carers would be needed to offer this service to each person in their own individual home?

The scandal is that CV was allowed to go unchecked into Care homes and the adults in the community cared for by care agencies.

Indeed PHE published guidelines stating that there was no need to take any precautions with care home residents (or staff) as the risks were v low.... only recently updated.

Even now Hancock says only patients displaying symptoms will be tested (when there is enough capacity to do so)... whats the point of that?
ALL people in care homes need to be tested so that those with it can be isolated away from those who do not have CV.

Yet again half measures from this incompetent Govt, they really couldn't care less, so long as they are not associated with these deaths.

But hey, who cares about a bunch of low-paid careworkers, many of whom are 'just' foreigners, and their families, eh? Just cannon fodder. one careworker dies, another one comes off the jobseeker's list. No problem

This. Medical staff have been sainted throughout this but so many other frontline staff are seen as expendable. I say this as a teacher. All anyone seems to care about is getting kids back to school. No thought whatsoever as to the personal circumstances of those of us standing in front of classes. In fact, someone yesterday suggested all staff with issues such as asthma should just go on benefits and retrain if they no longer wanted to do their jobs.

Wonderful work is done in care homes for appalling money and with dementia patients, difficult working conditions. I wish all care staff the best in such appalling circumstances. Some of us really do care about outcomes for you as much as your residents.

We need more focus on palliative care and a dignified end. We need to stop treating everyone for everything to give them a couple more months. I hope these discussions can start now.

This.

And yes, we also need to focus on the workers in the care homes, and their rights and protections.

DH works in a care home, and I'm really worried about it getting in there. He has a few mild issues that wouldn't be a problem in the normal run of things, but also has only one kidney after being ill as a baby, and I worry that covid could hit him really badly, especially with what I'm reading about viral load.

The people he works with are mostly middle aged women, many of whom have already had to self isolate at home because of underlying issues. They aren't all young fit 20 somethings.

The home is specialist dementia care, it's a really good home and definitely one of the good ones, and they are set up for end of life care. For most of the residents it would be beyond cruel to take them into hospital if they were dying. They would be so frightened. The home organises lots of trips for the residents usually - lunches out, OAP dinner dances - but it's only the early stage/more able ones who are able to go, as even "fun" trips are too upsetting for most of the residents.

Also how are you supposed to get them to hospital? The nearest one is 20+ miles away, and a member of staff has to travel in the ambulance with them usually, which they can't do now. I don't see how paramedics could manage if they kicked off- which they can do with surprisingly effect, despite being frail and ill.

It's an awful situation, but it's not the staying in care homes that's the issuer, it's the lack of PPE, potential lack of pain relief, and discharging covid patients into care homes that is the issue. Luckily DH's place went into lockdown weeks ago and have bought and provided their own PPE and so far they have no cases, but they're all just waiting. It's awful. They looked into staff living in on 3 week rotations but they simply haven't enough staff who can do it, between those self isolating, looking after vulnerable family members and children.

Anyone who looks down their nose at care workers can just fuck the hell off after this, frankly. Chances are we're all going to end up in one, and these are low paid workers doing the absolute best they can to care for elderly residents who they have come to know and are fond of, and now they're going to have to watch them drop like flies around them while being afraid of contracting the virus too. I couldn't be more proud of my DH personally, I know on MN everyone has husbands earning 6 figures and wouldn't touching a man earning under 25k, but my DH is trotting off to work 12 hour shifts with this potential horror of a situation hanging over him, while the only risk most of the "my husband who earns six figures" blokes have to face is stubbing their toe on the desk on the way to their Zoom meeting.

@beatrixpottersalterego

Well said!

I hope this crisis has made us realise the value and importance of caring and the unimportance of rich, fat cats who do nothing for society except pose on instagram.

I hope your DH stays safe and well- he's doing amazing work and you are right to be proud of him

Other posters have made great points on why taking care home residents to nightingale hospitals would not work. These elderly residences have very high needs and they could not be possibly met at the nightingale hospital.

I think the situation could improve BUT I dont think moving said resident would help.

Not deliberately introducing a tested positive patient into a currently covid free home would be a start.
I thought we were supposed to be stopping the spread of the virus, not deliberately spreading it.

It’s unlikely that the scenario of choosing between a child and an 85-year old adult needing ventilators would occur but, if it did, if neither had underlying health issues and one had to be picked to go on a ventilator, I'd prefer them to have an equal chance. Pick straws if necessary

I find it shocking that anyone thinks like this.

@Nearlyalmost50
We're very lucky in the sense we are a small home , and have a nursing unit so we have use of oxygen , end of life drugs , so we are pretty much able to care at the home for everyone when they sadly reach that stage.
. I'm glad your relative was cared for well , everyone should be , an we've had a few non caring carers over the years - they don't stay very long as our home ethic is a very loving and caring one .. we have such a mix of residents , from age to conditions an illnesses , an we care for them individually based on their needs. Not everyone living in a care setting is elderly or is nearing end of life anyway , an I think that's a point that so many people commenting on them miss.
We want to keep them as safe as possible during this , many home managers have been told they have to accept overflows from hospitals without knowing if they have the virus, and that is frightening .
The only positive being that we are able to nurse them with dignity and love at our home so they can pass away with us , rather than going to hospital.

A 106 year old came out of hospital yesterday having survived Covid-19

Which means that "the old" are not being left wholesale to die in care homes without care. There have actually been quite a few of these survivors, and obviously they DID get the care they needed or wanted. You also have to accept that a lot of elderly don't want to go into hospital, won't tolerate high dependancy care, and want to left alone to die in peace. My DM is 92 and in pretty good health, she is staying put, and is ready to die, she doesn't want treatment which has the possibility of reducing her quality of life. Her husband wishes he hadn't had a prostate operation 5 years ago which left him incontinent and with regular UTI's. He has had Sepsis three times now and survived with fantastic healthcare, the last only a couple of weeks ago. So he still got care. If he caught Covid though, he's not going into hospital either. He's had enough. He wants to die in peace.

All this hand wringing about the old being denied treatment have so many stories behind them, and I suspect the media are really trying very hard to make a sensational story out of something which is really very commonplace ie: the elderly deciding against treatment.

PPE for Care Workers is a separate issue, but also, really, should be provided by their own employers, they are after all, mostly private companies.

It’s unlikely that the scenario of choosing between a child and an 85-year old adult needing ventilators would occur but, if it did, if neither had underlying health issues and one had to be picked to go on a ventilator, I'd prefer them to have an equal chance. Pick straws if necessary

Thank goodness you arent in charge of medical decisions then! Picking straws? OMG
Decisions should be made according to likely clinical outcomes, not from randomly picking a straw. What a horribly unscientific, cruel and immoral thought.

Alexis, I agree with you wholeheartedly.
I lived through both my mum and beloved aunt both with dementia in different care homes at the same time.
It was just awful.
Aunt fell and broke her hip. After her op, where she was completely out of it. Nurse said, oh we will give her some blood tonight and she’ll be so much better. What followed was 6 months of hell. My 91 year old aunt. A woman who for most of her life was beautiful, dignified and elegant was hoisted on and off the toilet . Hadn’t a clue where she was. She was a fantastic cook and the food she served, though edible, would never have made it onto her table. She passed away almost 92 and they would’ve had me running round like a headless chicken looking for ..another care home..as the one she’d lived in for 5 years couldn’t accept her back. Mercifully she saved them the bother and I went to see her For what was them the last time..rather than Visit another grotty home.

Mum was similar. Shipped out 8 months before her death because care home couldn’t manage her. I think the last place she was in..had a bit more empathy. Every day I prayed for dad , who had already passed on to come and get her.
My experience of care homes is not good.

Lovely post life is short..yes my mum got loving care at the end . Her home was able to provide good end of life care.
I didn’t write it then as it’s still very distressing.
If mum had got COVID and if they’d asked if I wanted it treated I’d have said no.
As it was both mum and aunt had some unexplainable bleeding going on and hospital and docs decided against investigative tests and I agreed.

My father is in a carehome with advanced dementia and almost zero quality of life. He has a DNR. There would be no.point at all in him taking up a valuable hospital bed should he contract C19

Larry - I think you are right. Illness and death are no longer as ever present as they were even as recently as my grandparents’ generation....

Beatrix...my son has just become a carer. He goes into peoples homes..over a 12-14 hour day he could see 20 clients.
He absolutely loves his job.
He’s on his way to becoming a theatre nurse so this is just a stepping stone along the way.
I’m really impressed. He’s dedicated and certainly not well paid.
He comes home to a partner and three children at the end of a long shift

I hope when I'm 85 and there's one ventilator and the choice is me or a child, I offer it to the child. Because I'm not a selfish prick and I will have lived my life

You see, it's this kind of statement that makes me not want to see assisted dying in this country. Wanting to keep on living - yes even some very ill elderly people want to stay alive! - is being presented as being a "selfish prick."

I find that really scary.

Friend works in a home and they said,from the start of this, once it gets in they’ll lose everyone in there. They’re basically left to manage as all medical staff are dealing with those who have the highest chance of survival

This is the sort of thing that I find shocking.

I'm really not talking about hypothetical scenarios of whether a demented 85 year old should receive ventilation in preference to a child ... That's a made up scenario. Of course medicos will make that decision on clinical criteria.

What is actually happening is that the lack of policy at the very top of the government has meant that elderly care home residents and the mostly low-paid staff caring for them, have been left, overlooked, and are like lambs to the slaughter.

Wanting to stay alive is one thing.

Being 85 and wanting life saving treatment to be given to you so a child dies instead IS being a selfish prick.

And whats your solution OP? Its been explained repeatedly why elderly residents of care homes with COVID can't (and often shouldn't) be transferred to hospital.

What do you think should be happening?

People are saying how the elderly are 'lambs to the slaughter' but what about the staff?

This whole care home situation is the most shocking element of the pandemic. Most care homes are staffed to the minimum legal limit, often have dreadful staff turnover, and people who are on minimum wage and minimal Ts & Cs. I know many who still have no PPE yet have suspected COVID cases in their homes. Why do they jeopardise their health, and that of their families, for other people's loved ones? Because they are much better human beings than many of us.

I'm hugely concerned about the announcement that families can visit. Surely that just endangers these care workers even more?

(And home care is usually the solution when care at home is no longer possible. )

I'm really sorry for your losses @Dowser