Coronavirus, gardens, 'sunbathing' etc.

[ShootsFruitAndLeaves]

You can legally sunbathe in your private garden all day long. But some people don't have gardens.

There are people complaining on social media to the police about people sunbathing on municipal land. Not large numbers of people, literally two people enjoying the sunshine and minding their own business. There are people replying that they will go out and assault them, etc.

There is in fact no law against sunbathing. It just seems to be bringing out the neighbourhood arseholes to try to enforce non-existent rules. Nobody is going to die because someone went out to the shop and decided to stop to sunbathe on a 16 acre meadow on the way home. Nobody. The 'but 1000 people died today' stuff is not related to that. Keep to your own household, don't mix with other people, don't leave home without a reasonable excuse.

I don't so much mind the sunbathers in the middle of an isolated field but I reserve a special loathing for people who sit on benches by narrow paths.

Our local park has a lake. They've now put in a rule you can only walk anti clockwise around it and your cant overtake the person in front as the path ist that wide. So far so good..

Then you get the selfish gits who think it's ok to sit on the benches dotted along the path. Short of jumping in the lake its impossible to pass them with 2 metres distance .. feel like pushing them in bench and all!!

i don't care though

Why don’t you?

Why should I care?
Do you want an ITU bed, if you need it? Because we don’t have enough for when the virus peaks, even with the measures put in place.

They aren't hurting anyone
How do you know?

Why are people complaining about them on social media?

See above.

Agree with you OP. The problem is actually people socialising not isolated sunbathing. I think the police are more focussed on big groups having picnics etc but who knows. I have a garden so I could just be all smug and condescending about how it's not that hard to stick to the rules, and throw in some moronic hyperbole about how 1000s are dying because you sat on a bench on tour own. But someone else wil be along in a tick to say just that.

People are annoyed because they are obeying the rules at great personal effort and sacrifice. Then some other twat looks for a loophole or just ignores the rules completely.

I know they probably don't in fact have anything better to do than complain, but still

And you, op, have nothing better to do than come on mumsnet complaining about people who are actually following the rules.

No one wants to be where we are right now. No ones happy with being in lockdown. But, the vast majority of us are following the rules for the sake of ourselves and others. The government have clearly given the reasons why you can leave the house. Sunbathing in the park is not one of them. They have advised you go to where you are going and straight back home in the shortest possible time. I don’t know what you don’t understand about that? You trying to be smart by finding a ‘loophole’ is ridiculous.

No one needs to be out sunbathing when we have so many people dying, daily, from this terrible virus.

In fact people are quite rightly sunbathing and otherwise enjoying themselves in large numbers all over the world, and have done so for millennia, despite constant suffering and disease. It's just life.

This is not, in fact, the apocalypse.

.

So 2 people sunbathing in a big field is not a big deal, - what if 2 people from every household that doesn’t have outside space also goes to sunbathe in that big field. Now you have people who will be within sneezing range of each other, having to pass multiple people (who are on the ground so more likely to get droplets landing on them from peoples exhaled breathe and the wind as they pass 2 mtrs away) touching benches and touching the grass, sweating into the grass for the virus to stay for a couple of hours for the next person to come and sit on the grass.
Do you see where I am going?
No, 1 or 3 people doing something isn’t going to be a big deal but if everyone thought the same thing it would suddenly become a very big deal, which is why the advice is explicit - leave your house for essential journeys only.
Doesn’t matter if you sunbathe while ok the way to the shop? Does that mean other people can go on the swings, sit and have a coffee, sit and read, do breakdancing, stop and sing, or the other million things people like to do?

I tell you what why don’t people who want to go to the beach and sunbath or go and meet thier friends for a cricket match sign a form before they do so waiving all rights and access to the NHS? That way you are free to go and do what you like and take your chances on catching the virus, but if you do you will not be able to take a bed, ventilator or care from people who have obeyed the rules but still unfortunately caught it!

OP, it’s really not a difficult concept to grasp

The government have had to enforce 4 criteria for leaving your home

They cannot piss around with saying things like ‘if you won’t be seen you can do what you like’ or ‘if you have access to more than 1 acre of land you can do x,y,and z’

If sunbathing was allowed the beaches and parks would be packed

Do you really not get that?

In fact people are quite rightly sunbathing and otherwise enjoying themselves in large numbers all over the world, and have done so for millennia, despite constant suffering and disease. It's just life

This is not, in fact, the apocalypse

Carry on as normal then yes?

How do you think that’s going to work out, worldwide, especially for people who are poor and vulnerable?

And in the UK? Would you like there to be enough beds to go round or are you volunteering to donate yours, should you need it?

I'm pretty sure eating a stranger's meat isn't on the list of essential reasons to leave the house.

But most people are in fact following the advice, so it's not an issue.

Two people sunbathing on 16 acres is not an issue. At no point in history are these 16 acres likely to become crowded, because they are not in central London or otherwise notable.

Plus it’s not just about the people being out and possibly catching or spreading the viruse it’s the normal other things that happen that require people to seek medical attention - it’s people sitting too long in the sun with no sun cream and getting sunstroke or sunburn and needing medical attention, it’s leaving some rubbish behind that someone else cuts their hand on and needing medical attention, it’s leaving rubbish behind that requires a council worker to go and clean up, exposing that worker to more areas they can catch the virus from, it’s sitting in an ants nest and needing medical attention from the multiple bites, it’s more people out and about making it harder for police to see who is out legitimately and who is breaking the rules. It’s more people out and about crossing roads meaning an increased risk of someone getting run over,
And so on, all these things happen on a normal day, we are trying to reduce the risk of all the above things so that the NHS can concentrate on the virus patients.

No you personally may never do any of the above things but there are PLENTY of people who do.

People just love getting on their self righteous high horses and slating others for being out of line even if they aren't behaving dangerously. This pandemic is bringing out the worst in a lot of people.

But most people are in fact following the advice, so it’s not an issue

Ah. The classic anti vaxxer argument.

FFS OP

Where have there been problems with people sunbathing in 16 acres of land?

The problem is most people have to travel to get to such areas and those who don’t or can’t, then only have access to much more densely packed areas where this can’t happen or everyone would start doing it

I’ve seen your posts on other threads and you’re very much in the camp of ‘as long as most people follow the rules, then some people can take the piss if they want to’

This pandemic is bringing out the worst in a lot of people.

Indeed it is

Is clearly highlighting the selfish fuckers who think the rules are there for everyone but themselves

How do you think that’s going to work out, worldwide, especially for people who are poor and vulnerable?

I have a pretty good idea, in fact. Currently lots of people are going hungry because coronavirus has shut down the world's economy. Chickens are being sold for pennies because people are not holding weddings and parties, so there's less call for meat. Tourism workers can no longer feed their families. Bus drivers no longer have jobs because the buses are not needed
Hundreds of millions of people are out of work and have no safety net from their government.

Those who still work because their output is still needed at the moment will find there is insufficient medical care, no ventilators etc and they may die because of insufficient nutrition combined with the effects of the virus, and then they will be buried by their families. And, eventually, life will go on.

Is that what you were referring to?

Where have there been problems with people sunbathing in 16 acres of land?

I didn't say it was a problem. It's two people on 16 acres. It's not a problem. But people were posting on the police FB that they were going to go and assault them.

The problem is most people have to travel to get to such areas

Rubbish, there is green space all over Britain. 16 acres is not that large, and nearly everyone will have such a space in walking distance. This space is in the middle of a fairly crappy housing estate, it's not notable.

So back to the question about why it is necessary for people to do this and what happens if everyone else in the surrounding area decides to do the same?

Actually there are considerably more than 4 “reasonable excuses” for leaving your house (and this isn’t an exhaustive list - note the use of a reasonable excuse includes the need):

(2) For the purposes of paragraph (1), a reasonable excuse includes the need—
(a)to obtain basic necessities, including food and medical supplies for those in the same household (including any pets or animals in the household) or for vulnerable persons and supplies for the essential upkeep, maintenance and functioning of the household, or the household of a vulnerable person, or to obtain money, including from any business listed in Part 3 of Schedule 2;

(b)to take exercise either alone or with other members of their household;

(c)to seek medical assistance, including to access any of the services referred to in paragraph 37 or 38 of Schedule 2;

(d)to provide care or assistance, including relevant personal care within the meaning of paragraph 7(3B) of Schedule 4 to the Safeguarding of Vulnerable Groups Act 2006(3), to a vulnerable person, or to provide emergency assistance;

(e)to donate blood;

(f)to travel for the purposes of work or to provide voluntary or charitable services, where it is not reasonably possible for that person to work, or to provide those services, from the place where they are living;

(g)to attend a funeral of—

(i)a member of the person’s household,

(ii)a close family member, or

(iii)if no-one within sub-paragraphs (i) or (ii) are attending, a friend;

(h)to fulfil a legal obligation, including attending court or satisfying bail conditions, or to participate in legal proceedings;

(i)to access critical public services, including—

(i)childcare or educational facilities (where these are still available to a child in relation to whom that person is the parent, or has parental responsibility for, or care of the child);

(ii)social services;

(iii)services provided by the Department of Work and Pensions;

(iv)services provided to victims (such as victims of crime);

(j)in relation to children who do not live in the same household as their parents, or one of their parents, to continue existing arrangements for access to, and contact between, parents and children, and for the purposes of this paragraph, “parent” includes a person who is not a parent of the child, but who has parental responsibility for, or who has care of, the child;

(k)in the case of a minister of religion or worship leader, to go to their place of worship;

(l)to move house where reasonably necessary;

(m)to avoid injury or illness or to escape a risk of harm.

I’m not seeing sunbathing in that list 🤔

I think if I were stuck in a flat with no outside space then I’d argue that sitting in the sun whilst maintaining social distancing came under reasonable excuse (m). Of course the police may disagree and ask me to return to my home (or escort me there) - as allowed for by the legislation. But I’d accept that risk.