Coronavirus, gardens, 'sunbathing' etc.

[ShootsFruitAndLeaves]

You can legally sunbathe in your private garden all day long. But some people don't have gardens.

There are people complaining on social media to the police about people sunbathing on municipal land. Not large numbers of people, literally two people enjoying the sunshine and minding their own business. There are people replying that they will go out and assault them, etc.

There is in fact no law against sunbathing. It just seems to be bringing out the neighbourhood arseholes to try to enforce non-existent rules. Nobody is going to die because someone went out to the shop and decided to stop to sunbathe on a 16 acre meadow on the way home. Nobody. The 'but 1000 people died today' stuff is not related to that. Keep to your own household, don't mix with other people, don't leave home without a reasonable excuse.

[Dutchesss]

Every time someone goes out there is a risk, that's why it's essential journeys only. We put ourselves and others at risk when we go shopping, but it's a necessity, please don't do it for sunbathing.

[Bearbehind]

If you don't get that the 10,000 people were already dead (so to speak), 3 weeks ago, when they first caught the virus, that's your problem, not mine.

If I said what I really thought of this post, I’d be banned

Suffice to say, you make me sick

[Thripp]

@ShootsFruitAndLeaves What an excellent post. Common sense in 250* words. I wish everyone could have this post via some kind of IV drip.

*I haven't counted them. I'm estimating. Before anyone tells me it's actually 263 or 301.

[mouldygrapes]

the transmission rate is lower than 1 per person, which a look at the death statistics has clearly happened

Sorry @ShootsFruitAndLeaves - explain that one to me, would you? Our current trajectory of deaths does not reflect this at all...

[Bearbehind]

OMFG - are you seriously praising a post where someone has said everyone who had died with CV was dead anyway?

WTF is wrong with you people?

[Thripp]

@Bearbehind I have no desire to get involved in an online spat with anyone. But I still think that @ShootsFruitAndLeaves speaks much sense. And sense is sadly lacking at the moment.

[ShootsFruitAndLeaves]

the transmission rate is lower than 1 per person, which a look at the death statistics has clearly happened

Sorry @ShootsFruitAndLeaves - explain that one to me, would you? Our current trajectory of deaths does not reflect this at all...

I have a spreadsheet here:

filebin.net/8et2jne8vj0ixmlg (For England NHS figures)

Deaths doubled every 3 days 12th March to 27 March. From then it took 8 days to double again. It looks like we will end up with most deaths on 8 April, around 800 for England alone, but they haven't been reported yet (now up to 709). The numbers for the 9, 10, 11 are still very much in their early stages, but they are looking like being stable or below the 8 April, although obvious caution is needed because of the Easter weekend slowing reporting down.

Anyway, there is around 5 days from infection to symptoms and 14 days from that to death; the lockdown started on 24 March, schools closed on 20 March, so you'd expect a peak in deaths around 19 days from school closure (8 April) and then after the lockdown for deaths to fall further to affect the lockdown (12 April).

At the moment clearly there are people infected pre-lockdown who are dying. Some since lockdown but who may have caught it pre-lockdown. The earliest exponential growth stage in deaths would have been infected while people were still behaving completely as normal, e.g., Crufts, Cheltenham, Stereophonics concert, etc.

Clearly as time went on we started to implement social distancing, cancelling events, e.g., football was cancelled from March 14, and the growth slowed down a lot to reflect those cancellations.

At some point we will presumably go back to an intermediate state of distancing so that the virus cannot spread as quickly as it did in the early growth stages of UK pandemic.

In the mean time it seems it's working.

[ShootsFruitAndLeaves]

that link might not work very well, this is probably better gofile.io/?c=RPPDpC

[ShootsFruitAndLeaves]

OMFG - are you seriously praising a post where someone has said everyone who had died with CV was dead anyway?

the point being that those who caught CV did so ~ 3 weeks ago, pre-lockdown, and no amount of 'social distancing' subsequent to that would help them.

[Bearbehind]

OP, you, and those who think like you, disgust me.

I’ll try keep on trying to do my best to keep my loved ones safe.

You do whatever the fuck you like

[mouldygrapes]

But a slowing of the increase in death rates does not indicate transmission rate has fallen below 1.

Newly reported confirmed infections aren’t increasing as fast as they were (indicating transmissions are falling) but this has nothing to do with death rate. We know death reporting will lag behind, and may not be accurate due to weekend etc.

Transmission has definitely fallen, but I’ve not seen any validated sources saying it’s fallen below 1

[chicken2015]

I find people tying themselves up in knots over how they can bend rules rather weird. We have been told to stay at home as much as possible to prevent the spead of a virus, yes the degree of which people r going to find difficult depends on their resources but thats life, some people will struggle more than others. I think obviously this situation has made people have lot of time on hands and they are just talking load of crap as time is what they have, but to actual people on frontline of this pandemic i feel for them as they have to read it.

[Iotswold]

I live in a flat with no garden, and I see red when I see stories of people sunbathing, hanging out at parks and similar for no good reason.
Op, you reference speeding, but when someone else speeds - there is no current threat of all cars being banned from the roads.
I resent people who flout the rules, bend the rules, think that they have found a loophole or whatever, because I don’t have a garden. Because one of my few liberties is to take exercise out of the house at a time and form of my choosing, this has already been limited due to abuse in my area and could be removed if too many people think that they aren’t hurting anyone by having a cheeky sunbathe.
Relative to many other countries our rules have not been too strict, there is room for them to be stricter still. Those of us without gardens have far more to lose, and that it why it is so frustrating - as shit as it is to not be able to fully enjoy the good weather, it could be a lot worse.

[excitedmumtobe87]

@ShootsFruitAndLeaves A look at the death statistics doesn’t tell you that. The statistics are not numbers that died the previous day but the deaths in hospitals confirmed and given consent by family. This means the figure always falls at weekends... a bank hol won’t help that. Sadly the death rate is still on the up. It usually leaps on a Tuesday, probably be Wednesday this week. The peak is still expected to be two weeks away.

Our figures are days behind. Take a look at the ONS statistics for a more accurate view.

[Thripp]

@Bearbehind We all have "loved ones" whom we want to keep "safe". However, at least some of us are able to think about how best to achieve a balance between this and keeping sane.

the degree of which people r going to find difficult depends on their resources but thats life, some people will struggle more than others

I can't begin to deal with this kind of attitude, @chicken2015

Do you know anyone with severe MH problems which have been exacerbated by their adherence to the lockdown? Are you seriously writing them off with 'but thats (sic) life'?

I really do despair. Have you paid any attention, at all, to the various initiatives regarding mental health generally? Even if you don't read the news, have you not seen hashtags on whatever social media you might use? (I don't use any, so don't know what they are - but I am quite sure they will be there). Would you write them off as "that's life, some people will struggle more than others", or would you be sharing them, liking them, doing whatever one does with them?

If the latter, how can you even think of dismissing people with MH problems related to the lockdown on Mumsnet?

[RoryGillmoresEvilTwin]

I do wonder if the people that are so smug, the, all you're being asked to do is sit on your sofa brigade, have their own outside space. Fb is swamped with pictures of families frolicking in their gardens with paddling pools, trampolines and eating meals alfresco. How lovely...

They have no idea what it's like being cooped up in a small flat with a child day in day out. No way of getting any air or sunlight. They literally have no clue.

We go out daily for a walk so get a bit of outside space but it's actually quite horrible. We're constantly dodging other people and we both end up more anxious than before we left. We walked 10 minutes up the road today and crossed from side to side 5 times.
Ds and I are abiding by all lockdown and social distancing rules but by god it's taking a toll on us both. I'm 100% certain we'd be much happier and healthier and less likely to break the rules if we had the luxury of space and money .
Quite frankly, at this moment in time I'm more worried about our mental health than I am about Covid-19.

[Isla727]

I think that being stuck in a flat with no garden must feel like prison for a lot of people at the moment but there is a risk from sunbathing in urban places. If sunbathing-on-the-way-back-from-shopping was a permitted activity then a lot of people would be doing it and parks would be overrun with people sunbathing. This would increase the spread of Coronavirus.

The UK has actually been a lot less restrictive with their lockdown measures than Spain where people have been forced to shop very infrequently, banned from walking and cycling at all and where parks have been closed during the lockdown.

[catsandlavender]

I’m in a flat with no garden, no balcony, nothing. It’s really fucking shit. Somehow still managing not to go out sunbathing. I had this convo with a friend actually, the issue is no, there is little individual risk if I am to go and sunbathe in an empty park. But if everyone does it, then there is more risk.

The very least we can do when key workers are putting themselves at risk every day is to follow the guidance. Which is very clear, as anyone in the country with a tv or internet access... or a newspaper... will know.

[7Days]

Simply cant get over this thread.

The virus does not care if you have no garden. Yea its utter utter shit to be trapped in a small flat with kids. But the virus will spread if people move about. Complain all you want, justifiably, I might add, but it doesn't change the facts -
Its like complaining about the sun rising in the east, or railing against the tide.

Nobody can change the facts, you (generic you) aren't on some special VIP clipboard, it's not like the virus will have a change of heart on hearing your own particular circumstances.

[chicken2015]

Im not dismissing anyone, i am saying it is a fact that some people will struggle more than other due to their resources ie garden or lack of garden, that doesnt mean that we should have one rule for one group of people and one rule for others , the simple fact is if one persons bends the rules it encourages more than u have parks and open spaces full of people and the virus spreads. Its simple facts. And yes i do know people who r having serve MH issues due to lockdown , one person i know went and meet up with group of.people during lockdown and now im waiting for next 7 days incase they have been given the virus. And its very stressful. I know another person who i am regularly messaging.

[chicken2015]

And a side note i also suffer from anxiety and depression and my anxiety has been going crazy

[mouldygrapes]

I agree @chicken2015 was just stating facts. No one has said it isn’t tough to follow the rules. It will inevitably (and unfairly) be easier for some than others. Just as some will be unfairly penalised with job losses or salary cuts through no fault of their own and others may do well. Just as some are put at risk from lack of PPE. It’s all utterly shit and unfair, but exactly as stated above, we have to have one set of rules for everyone and people need to stop looking for loopholes and claiming to be the exception

[Hopefulmidwife]

@RoryGillmoresEvilTwin you have explained exactly how I feel much better than I could!

[Xenia]

The botto line should always be the law www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/350/contents/made not the interpretation of the police or state on it. So eg you can go out to exercise, not to sunbathe even though vit D protects you against the virus. You cn go out to dance, swim, do yoga but if you are an old lady with a stick woe betides if you need a little sit down miles from anyone in order to get back from the walk as the law says that is not exercise. Anyway hopefully this will be over soon before we need any more legal letters to the state about it all.

[ShootsFruitAndLeaves]

Don't worry the cops will be hiding the shadows to frighten the old lady to death.

twitter.com/CentralBedsCPT/status/1249003469098319873