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China must have majorly downplayed their figures, right?

204 replies

Louise000000 · 06/04/2020 21:27

We are now over 5,000 deaths and China just over 3,000. This isn't even possible is it, how have they managed to cover up their true numbers here?

OP posts:
Dongdingdong · 08/04/2020 09:48

OP - there's more chance of you winning the lottery every week for a year than China's figures being accurate.

goldpartyhat · 08/04/2020 10:38

@LoveIsLovely China did not lock down immediately. They arrested doctors who were warning of this new virus and wasted weeks.

Ticklemeelmo · 08/04/2020 10:39

ShanghaiDiva

You said in previous posts that you believed that the numbers could be low in Shanghai as well as other provinces, because of China's tough measures. They didn't implement any measures until at least a month after the outbreak.

If cases here were not low, how can the current situation be explained? It all seems impossible, yet what I see (through dh as I am not back) suggests it is possible.

The tough measures which China implemented across every province could mean that their numbers in some provinces (excluding Hubei) align with Taiwan’s.

goldpartyhat · 08/04/2020 10:40

I'm inclined to also believe everyone is fiddling the figures reporting differently

pocketem · 08/04/2020 10:40

@BovaryX again with the Chinese ants theory that Chinese people are so sociopathic that they wouldn't notice millions of their fellow people dying, including friends, families and colleagues, and therefore they would only be able to work this out from crematorium furnace activity.

If you need a white person rather than a "shifty Asian" to give you an insight from inside Wuhan, try following one of the many Brits inside the city such as this guy who posts daily videos

BovaryX · 08/04/2020 10:43

Chinese people are so sociopathic

What a racist statement.@pocketem The only person saying that is you. Why are you making racist statements?

BovaryX · 08/04/2020 10:46

Why are you talking about shifty asians? Why are you making racist statements? The only person this thread using racist language is you**@pocketem

BovaryX · 08/04/2020 10:51

@pocketem
You have described Chinese people on this thread as ants, sociopathic, shifty asians I have reported your post.

feelingverylazytoday · 08/04/2020 10:52

Trying to shut people down by accusing them of '-ism' or '-phobia' isn't going to work anymore. People have been seeing through those tactics for some time now. See the transactivism debacle.

MangoFeverDream · 08/04/2020 10:53

Chinese ants theory that Chinese people are so sociopathic that they wouldn't notice millions of their fellow people dying, including friends, families and colleagues, and therefore they would only be able to work this out from crematorium furnace activity

Who said any of this? The Chinese government has the power to enforce their narrative of events, or did Tiananmen pass you by? (look up the Tiananmen mothers, still bravely trying to get justice for their children)

I fear that Wuhan will go much the same way. I’m sure that the censors in Beijing are ready ....

tonglong · 08/04/2020 10:56

China's official numbers are a joke. The centre of the pandemic and largest population in the world managed to have no new cases from the day it banned reporting on it. If anyone believes the CCP narrative they must be mad

Ticklemeelmo · 08/04/2020 11:00

pocketem

As has previously already been pointed out to you, the criticism here is of the Chinese government, not its citizens. Stop trying to derail the thread with pointless accusations of racism.

BovaryX · 08/04/2020 11:03

Stop trying to derail the thread with pointless accusations of racism.

The person posting racist slurs and peddling racist language is pocketem.

ShanghaiDiva · 08/04/2020 11:17

ticklemeelmo
Despite my name, I don’t live in shanghai and my comments refer to Jiangsu province. Measures where i live were implemented about 3 days after lockdown in Wuhan, not one month later. Although, of course, no measures were implemented anywhere when the first cases were discovered in Wuhan and it seems unclear when then was. November? December?
Yes, I do believe that tough measures reduced the number of cases. It may not be a popular opinion on mumsnet, but it is based on what I saw and experienced.

pocketem · 08/04/2020 11:32

@Ticklemeelmo the criticism here is of the Chinese government, not its citizens

Assuming Chinese people wouldn't notice millions of their friends, families and colleagues dying is a slur against Chinese citizens as well as their government

BovaryX · 08/04/2020 11:38

slur against Chinese citizens

You are the only person making racist slurs @pocketem. If your motive is to prevent people discussing the origins of what is now a global health emergency? It is not going to work. Your racist inflammatory language on this thread is a disgrace.

MangoFeverDream · 08/04/2020 11:44

Assuming Chinese people wouldn't notice millions of their friends, families and colleagues dying is a slur against Chinese citizens as well as their government

You didn’t address my point that the Chinese government has the power to set the narrative.

They did that at Tiananmen, and the Chinese people cannot do anything about it. The Tiananmen Mothers (to name one group) will never get justice

pocketem · 08/04/2020 12:07

You didn’t address my point that the Chinese government has the power to set the narrative. They did that at Tiananmen

It's a different world now than in the 80s. Even with the Great Firewall, information gets out. As posted above there are Westerners in the hardest cities posting daily video updates from YouTube. Do you think they are all being told what to say by the government?

MangoFeverDream · 08/04/2020 13:03

It's a different world now than in the 80s. Even with the Great Firewall, information gets out

I wish it was but that is not the case. WeChat is heavily censored and you know that people are punished for what they say on that platform. Li Wenliang first posted about the novel virus in a WeChat group, and the police visited him on that basis; a Chinese billionaire called Xi a clown for his handling of the virus and had disappeared. He’s apparently under investigation. Another whistleblower doctor from Wuhan, Dr Ai Fen, has been disappeared. Oh, but some foreigner is posting videos on YouTube. Tell me how he is in a position to know anything?

.....and you want to say things are different than the 80s? People are still just as powerless to push back against the prevailing narrative.

flowerpeaceful · 08/04/2020 13:30

I have relatives who live in other city outside HuiBei, their province only had cases just passed 1000 and a few death. I believe this figure. As within my relative and friends circle in this province , no one caught it. A couple of my friends are doctors in the hospital in the capital city of the province, they had a quiet time, as nobody went to hospital for any non-emergency issue. There were daily update in the news, there is even an app telling you the cases around you. My relative lives in a big city, they had stayed at home since the lockdown in Wuhan started, they checked the app daily, can see there were cases later appeared in the area close to them, but their residential area never had any case. Outside Hubei, since there are few cases, beside lock down, government were able to check and trace thoroughly. Basically, if you came back from Wuhan, you told the management of your residential area, if you developed temperature, then you got tested. One of my friend , her daughter came back from Wuhan and her uni friend in Wuhan had temperature, then she immediately reported and she got tested. Luckily she didn’t caught it. Once case is confirmed, then all the close contact are traced and checked. From the first case appearing soon after the Wuhan lockdown at 3rd Jan, the cases increase and peaked at around 7th Feb.
The death rate is quite low in the provinces outside Hubei, one reason I think is there was enough medical resource due to low cases. The other reason is the age of the patients. People went to Wuhan and came back to their family during new year holiday, they are much younger population. And because of the strict lockdown and check and trace, it didn’t spread out. Also, the most important reason is most of the cases have been counted, even the mild one.
The other thing is the ability of home delivery service. My relatives didn’t need to go out, as all their shopping are delivered. Delivery man wearing PPE deliver the goods to the gate of the residential area, then my relative wearing glove and mask go out to collect it.

Actually, if people don’t believe Chinese figure, you can look at Singapore figure, the other provinces outside Hubei did similar thing as Singapore did. Their pattern are similar I think.

The figure in Wuhan might not be that accurate, as the situation was intensive there initially, lots of patient flooded into the hospital. There were not enough testing kit, testing result time were too long, I remembered it was 2 day initially. There was a time, doctors suggested to use chest scan picture to decide as well, so some cases without CV must have been included for a while. Some patient died without even admitted to hospital, so their death didn’t count. It turned better once the aid from other provinces coming in. There must be lots of cases with mild symptoms and non symptoms , but nobody knows as they are not tested.

pocketem · 08/04/2020 15:27

Thank you @flowerpeaceful . Good to hear about experiences of actually being in the affected areas from you and @ShanghaiDiva

Ticklemeelmo · 08/04/2020 15:39

ShanghaiDiva
*
Measures where i live were implemented about 3 days after lockdown in Wuhan, not one month later. Although, of course, no measures were implemented anywhere when the first cases were discovered in Wuhan and it seems unclear when then was. November? December?*

No, I mean the government did not implement any measures anywhere in China from the first officially recorded case (8th December, although likely November) until the 23rd January. That is well over a month, ridiculously slow to act.

Wehttam · 08/04/2020 15:40

Just to repeat, be mindful of those who readily defend the CCP and the 🦄 ‘statistics’ they release. 👀

flowerpeaceful · 08/04/2020 15:57

Well, I am not sure how can you make a decision on lock down a big city based on a few cases without find out what it is first.

The earliest cases landed in the hospital was early December, then it was reported, and scientist has done the DNA check etc and decide it is a new virus. And this was reported to WHO on the end of December, or 3rd Jan.This data should be able to be checked on WHO website. I know American certainly was briefed on this at the beginning of Jan. South Korea and Singapore has reacted very fast. I listened to South Korea's foreign minister speech with BBC on this . She talked about how they quickly developed the testing kit based on the releasing of the DNA sequencing.

It's only in January, people started to realize there are people carrying the virus without symptoms but can pass it to other people. And also, scientist started to find out there must be some cases back in November. That's the same in other country, when you see serous cases in the hospital, there are already lots of mild cases in the community.

This is the horrible nature of this virus. Normally, a serious virus don't spread far, as each one catch it showing serious symptoms and then it is very easy to control. But this virus, there are so many people catch it without symptoms and pass it around without knowing it.