Page 33 | Boris in ICU

larrygrylls · 07/04/2020 13:39

Tigger,

Although I am of the belief that his treatment will not follow the normal protocol, he clearly is not fine if he has been moved to ICU. There was/is clearly at least a concern that he may need ventilation,

Otherwise he would be in a large and comfortable private room.

I am also slightly dubious about the veracity of what we get out of Downing Street. Was he really tweeting happily from hospital a few hours before moving to ICU? I guess it is possible but I do think that at least the timeline of the news is being somewhat massaged.

joydivisionovengloves71 · 07/04/2020 13:40

What would your MP like to do? Insist all elderly people are put on ventilators? I'm guessing that's down to the consultants making that decision not the Conservatives.

Kurzgesagt · 07/04/2020 13:41

Tory thought police out I see.
You can wish the guy well without eulogising him.
You can also question why Hcp are still consistently without effective ppe, things are still stretched as far as staffing is concerned, nowhere near the recommended ratios for safe patient care, equipment is short like haemodialysis machines, cpap equipment, without it being disrespectful or described as scaremongering.

Tonyaster · 07/04/2020 13:43

Of course its disrespectful if you are saying that a lack of medical equipment is because someone very ill in hospital has been given preference.

Peregrina · 07/04/2020 13:45

But you are not allowed to discuss the Tory failings on this thread. This is only for Boris Johnson until it comes to making excuses for lack of provision within the NHS

starlightgazers · 07/04/2020 13:47

Do you honestly believe that it would be in any way appropriate for most very elderly people already in care homes to be rushed into an acute care setting for invasive treatment given the outcomes for that category of patient?

Quite. It's very sad, but ventilation and CPR are brutal and it would be unethical to use it on someone who is unlikely to benefit. I think some think medicine is more advanced than it actually is, many people are past the pointy at which they could be saved or continue with any quality of life after intervention. I've seen doctors in tears in the past at having to attempt resuscitation on very frail/ elderly people because families were vehemently opposed to signing a DNR. I wondered if those families would still not agree with it if they had to watch the process - it is brutal and nothing like it looks on the TV etc.

vera99 · 07/04/2020 13:49

Yup Tory thought police well put. Because it's all hunky-dory, messages about screaming for PPE when they've been told weeks ago it's all in hand when herd immunity was a strategy and not a death sentence and we shouldn't scaremonger. And we should crawl back into the cesspit where we belong. Yes, the message is quite clear clap for the NHS, pray for Boris but don't whatever you do politicise the political.

www.nottinghampost.com/news/nottingham-news/partner-brave-nottingham-nurse-opens-3990475?fbclid=IwAR1NfFgizXZwMBxL6CshlV_VCqUMCAIgSZNwvvXmx6lVKtoRFMhwsK1smFQ

halcyondays · 07/04/2020 13:50

Frail elderly people in care homes would be very unlikely to be put on ventilators at any time but they would normally be admitted to hospital and put on oxygen for respiratory problems if they’re having trouble breathing. Nobody has suggested they should be put on ventilators but if they are not being admitted to hospital at all, we should be questioning it.

ChubbyPigeon · 07/04/2020 13:55

That posters brother may have died, and he might have even been denied a ventilator. However this would have been because he would not survive ventilation, not because there werent enough. Even if that hospital ran put of ventilators (which is very unlikely) he would be diverted to another hospital. There are enough ventilators in the UK currently

Why would you stand in the street shouting to tell someone their son had died? Why would you not ring them? Or just stand 3ms away. 2m isnt that far

Its scaremongering bullshit.

Even if there were no ventilstors in a 100mile radius, they wont start denying ventilators randomly, it will be a clinical decision based on chance of survival. It wouldnt be a random fit and well 50 yr old.

Very elderly maybe denied ventilation because they wont survive it, they might have a DNR in place for example. This is always the case when giving medical care to very elderly/ill people.

MarshaBradyo · 07/04/2020 13:58

Chubby yes I agree with your points. Very sad if he’s lost his brother but rest is too much and doubtful.

ChubbyPigeon · 07/04/2020 13:59

Theres still plenty of normal hospital beds with oxygen though, so theres no reason to deny medical care to the very elderly unless its better for them to be at home.

Bearing in mind if you die in hospital now you will die alone in an unfamiliar place. If i knew a family member wouldnt survive hospital I would want them to die in their own beds, even if that own bed is in a carehome.

vera99 · 07/04/2020 14:01

@ChubbyPigeon Maybe because he's telling his father (who is old) that his brother has died but he can't hug him. He is in the street grief-stricken but can't go into the house and want to tell his father in person. But obviously bullshit to you. Having done some due diligence I am pretty sure that the key facts and the emotions are true. Despite others here calling it fake from the highest rooftops.

Tonyaster · 07/04/2020 14:01

Yup Tory thought police well put. Because it's all hunky-dory, messages about screaming for PPE when they've been told weeks ago it's all in hand when herd immunity was a strategy and not a death sentence and we shouldn't scaremonger. And we should crawl back into the cesspit where we belong. Yes, the message is quite clear clap for the NHS, pray for Boris but don't whatever you do politicise the political

You are entitled to feel as political about it as you like, just not on this thread. Even someone very left wing would be intelligent enough to see that post you shared is bollocks.

alloutoffucks · 07/04/2020 14:03

@NaturalBornWoman My grandmother who lived till 97 and had a good quality of life in a care home was rushed to hospital at 92 and had an operation.

Tonyaster · 07/04/2020 14:03

I am pretty sure that the key facts and the emotions are true

You are sure that the brother died because he needed a ventilator and the hospital didn't have one for him?

ChipotleBlessing · 07/04/2020 14:05

Lol at the Tory thought police. I’m a Labour member, I fought hard to stop Boris being PM. If you want to fight for the NHS you fight with truth. The shortages of PPE are an absolute disgrace. Government inaction will be partly to blame for lack of ventilators at the peak. But Boris is not currently taking an ICU bed from someone who needs it more. People in their 50s are not currently being denied ventilators for non-clinical reasons. Your fake news stories undermine the very real fight to properly equip the NHS.

alloutoffucks · 07/04/2020 14:06

And I have been on a respiratory ward. It was full of old people including some getting oxygen. Some left and went back home/to care homes while I was there.
It should be judged on clinical need. Not just they are old and in a care home, so die in your own bed.

Inkpaperstars · 07/04/2020 14:08

Frail elderly people in care homes would be very unlikely to be put on ventilators at any time but they would normally be admitted to hospital and put on oxygen for respiratory problems if they’re having trouble breathing. Nobody has suggested they should be put on ventilators but if they are not being admitted to hospital at all, we should be questioning it.

Yes, ventilators and resusc aside, the level of care they would receive in hospital would be far superior.

pocketem · 07/04/2020 14:10

the level of care they would receive in hospital would be far superior.

Not true a the best of times, but certainly not true now. Putting them in an overcrowded hospital with lots of other bugs around and staff like medical students and long-retired nurses who have been pressed back into service is hardly going to be in their best interests when they could have oxygen at the care home

Peregrina · 07/04/2020 14:10

You are entitled to feel as political about it as you like, just not on this thread. Even someone very left wing would be intelligent enough to see that post you shared is bollocks.

When where you appointed the Moderator for the thread? How about taking your own advice and sticking to comments about Boris Johnson, instead of offering up opinions about left wingers and decrying posts as being bollocks, when you have no more clue than the rest of us?

vera99 · 07/04/2020 14:12

@Tonyaster I have established to my satisfaction and provided evidence that the poster is who they say they are, live where they do and Occam's razor says that he has most likely lost his brother on the date he alleges at the hospital on the date he mentions to Covint19. He mentions the ventilator and I for one in the absence of other evidence have no reason to doubt he believes what he is a saying. A lot more evidence than some of the BS that No 10 has been spinning in the last few weeks and in particular over the health of the PM. A guy which the vast majority of the posters on here, whatever their particular persuasion, s hope pulls through this nightmare.

Peregrina · 07/04/2020 14:13

It would depend how near the medical students were to qualifying, and how long retired the nurses were.

JackJackIncredible · 07/04/2020 14:24

I deteriorated very rapidly with COVID pneumonia so I can well believe it happened with poor Boris

JackJackIncredible · 07/04/2020 14:27

@vera99

Sadly, some people are too unwell to be ventilated, even younger people. It is not beyond the realms of possibility that this occurred to the poor man mentioned. It was 2 weeks ago that he died, we weren’t running out of ventilators for young people then and we aren’t right now.

vera99 · 07/04/2020 14:34

@JackJackIncredible hope you are getting better, very sorry to hear about your ordeal and many thanks for your clarification.