Boris in ICU

[PicsInRed]

Oh Boris no 🙁

Well at least he's doing his bit for herd immunity

When somebody as youngish as Boris is and as reasonably healthy as he is despite a few extra pounds can end up in ICU fighting for his life it puts the prospect of herd immunity very squarely back in the box. So for better or worse, I don't see now politically how they can unlock in the short or medium term. Which pretty much means we are economically fucked.

I don't know if people are receiving oxygen in care homes though @pocketem

I saw a new segment in a care home where the staff were saying they have no equipment or experience of this and no idea how to deal with breathlessness.

How bad things are in the hospital must also depend a bit on location, timing in the epidemic etc.

Even if that hospital ran put of ventilators (which is very unlikely) he would be diverted to another hospital. There are enough ventilators in the UK currently

This is interesting and I wonder how it works as health is a devolved matter. There are four healthcare systems in practice. However, as people here seem to know a lot about it maybe they could explain. Do the four nations (as the UK) have a common pool for ventilators? Of which there is a central count with a central knowledge of how many are needed in all parts. Maybe all four healthcare systems have reported and the complete picture is collated that way.
There are differences in other things. N.I.C.E. in England and Wales where as the Scottish Medicines Consortium in Scotland.

Theres an ICU bed buraeu that gets a daily count of all ICU bed spaces twice a day. they phone each unit and ask how many beds are being declared. Each ICU transport team will be aware of how many icu beds are available in their own region. If a patient arrives at a hospital and requires intubation they will be put on a portable vent or hand ventilated by a Dr until the transport team can come to pick them up. transport has its own dangers so the priority is always to keep them at the hospital they present to if at all possible

Thank you, reese. It must be a very busy job at the moment. Probably is at the best of times.

Any new update on his condition?

Who knows whether is true or not in all it's detail but in essence, in our hearts, we all know that the sentiment is true.

Truth about this pandemic isn't in ours hearts or in essence. It isn't a sentiment. It's either a fact or it's not.

So much dangerous claptrap on FB and it should always be challenged.

Even extremely intelligent, otherwise logical, people can be truly shocked when they are told that a ventilator is not the right next step for their relative. We are a nation brought up on 'Holby City' and 'Casualty', where everyone who is ill gets taken to hospital, diagnosed, treated and fixed within an hour.

When I started working in ICU, I was truly shocked that there were discussions about the patient who was 'too sick for ICU'. It had never entered my mind, despite qualifying in 2003, that a patient could be 'too sick' for ITU.

Intensive care is barbaric medicine. It causes suffering. It causes pain. It causes distress. It pushes the body to the limit of endurance and forces it to keep going when it has had enough. It is only ethical to give intensive care to patients who might realistically benefit from it in a meaningful way. Otherwise, you are simply denying a patient of a relatively peaceful death.

Many, many relatives spend their hours hoping and pushing for recovery rather than treasuring their last moments with a loved one, because their loved one is in 'Intensive Care', so they think that they will do well. A high proportion of relatives are absolutely blind-sided when they are told that nothing more can be done for their loved one.

I feel for this man, but the reality is that it is unlikely that it was simply a case of 'no ventilator'. He could have been moved to another hospital if necessary.

@ChipotleBlessing thank you. @Cailleach1and@vera99 no straw man just the reality that the NHS staff on that ward would have done all they could to help any 55 year old man dying in Nottingham that night the best quality of care and that isn't always putting someone on a ventilator. To say they didn't do that when they could have done, because there were actually ventilators available is an insult to the care they gave him.

vera99

@ChubbyPigeon Maybe because he's telling his father (who is old) that his brother has died but he can't hug him. He is in the street grief-stricken but can't go into the house and want to tell his father in person. But obviously bullshit to you. Having done some due diligence I am pretty sure that the key facts and the emotions are true. Despite others here calling it fake from the highest rooftops.

What has that got to do with lack of ventilators and people being denied them? I'll answer for you, nothing.

It's a very sad situation that someone's son or brother has died, but don't try to suggest that the hospital and it's staff didn't do the absolutely best to save his life.

I really hope they start teaching critical thinking in schools and that this rubbish is treated with the contempt it deserves.

My daughter's friend posted a made up email (not by her) to the school internet page. Absolutely no one acknowledged it because it was patently scare mongering tripe.

I've just looked at Harry Patersons Twitter feed. He's a self proclaimed Hard Lefty who hates Boris Johnson. Draw your own conclusions. When challenged by someone about lying over the lack of ventilators, he says he didn't say he died because of a lack of ventilators, he was "denied" one over the phone before he arrived and the hospital also put a DNR order on his brother without consent. The whole thing sounds very fishy and clearly making political capital out of this is his intention.

@pocketem's right. Hydroxychloroquine is long out of patent. There's no money in it for the drugs companies. Unlike remdesivir, which is a new drug, or a vaccine.

I'm concerned we might dismiss a potential treatment because Trump mentioned it. He's actually rather late to the party. It was trialled in other countries weeks before he said anything.

When I was looking for more information on the drugs last night I saw exactly what Trump said: If it worked it would be a gift from God. Whether you like him or not, doesn't everyone share that hope? A PP asked why Trump hadn't offered it to the rest of us. It's not his drug to offer. Drugs companies make it and sell it. The antimalarials and remdesivir are all currently being given to selected patients here in the UK. It's part of late stage trials that started last week.
www.brusselstimes.com/belgium/102294/belgium-joins-european-clinical-trials-for-treatment-against-coronavirus/

We need hope and so far the antimalarials and separately remdesivir have promise. A few other drugs too.

What does he mean denied a ventilator over the phone?

Who denied him one over the phone?

That's not making sense to me.

When somebody as youngish as Boris is and as reasonably healthy as he is despite a few extra pounds can end up in ICU fighting for his life it puts the prospect of herd immunity very squarely back in the box

Not that I'm arguing for herd immunity but he's carrying more than a few extra pounds and he's a smoker.

He's not a smoker, is he? Aside from the cigar thing for the birth of his kids. In fact, this suggests he is not a smoker.

news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-boris-johnson-is-a-really-strong-guy-and-will-pull-through-says-friend-11969810

'Will Walden, who was Mr Johnson's director of communications at City Hall, said the prime minister would beat COVID-19.

Mr Johnson is in intensive care in hospital after his symptoms worsened on Monday.

Mr Walden said: "He will whip anybody's backside on a tennis court, he runs regularly, he doesn't smoke, he drinks moderately.'

Tonyaster nobody on here has mentioned their political affiliations.
Questioning the current governments actions is allowed funnily enough and doesn’t make you a ‘hard lefty’ or righty for that matter

The "hard lefty" comment is what the author of the fb post describes himself as on twitter.

He wouldn't beat Roger Federer.

So because he's hard left and can't stand the Tories, it doesn't mean that he hasn't lost a brother to this nasty virus. Maybe the brother was part of the collateral damage that Dominic Cummings was happy to see with his herd immunity ideas?

@CherryPavlova

San Marino and Andorra have highest death rate per million people population

Stupid statement

Andorra population is 80,000 (approx) - so it just takes 1 person to dramatically increase the rate per million

San Marino - 33,000 - so again 1 person increases the per million dramatically

Do you understand statistics and the Laws of small numbers?

Peregrina I've no doubt he lost a brother and that's very sad. I've no doubt he hates Boris Johnson and feels he's responsible for underfunding the NHS - fair enough. I really really doubt that his brother died because there were no ventilators available in QMC Nottingham.

What happens to a person who sadly passes away on a ventilator? Do they die whilst on it (sedated usually I think) or do the docs decide after so long that there's nothing they can do and take them off the ventilator and then they die? Just wondering as a lot of people are making out dying of this is horrific, but for the people on ventilators they are unconscious so don't know anything about it right?

Good news Boris is not on a ventilator, really really hope it's true, feeling a little better today about things after this news.

I'm concerned we might dismiss a potential treatment because Trump mentioned it. He's actually rather late to the party. It was trialled in other countries weeks before he said anything

The clinical trial wasn't really a gold standard one

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/06/hydroxychloroquine-trump-coronavirus-drug

It might have an effect - but it does need a proper double blind randomised trial - and it needs to look at who might benefit from it, what dose and for how long.

Because there are very real side effects - and what's the point in giving a drug to someone who will get better (unless it alleviates symptoms) or giving a drug that does not protect people from dying.

I'm surprised Boris doesn't have pneumonia. So why did he still have a temperature 11 days later, and why is he having difficulty breathing?