What is the true story?

[Namechangervaver]

Hancock has said he has lost two people close to him.

Somebody I know has died.

Boris has been hospitalised.

The country has been shut down despite us knowing that to do this will cripple us for years to come, so it's a very serious situation.

A small fraction of our population is supposedly affected but I'm guessing we all know people hospitalised or dead.

This is obviously so much worse than we have been told

I think multiple governments do not tell people to stay at home, build new hospitals very suddenly and close down half their economy if it is not very bad.
Its like in the relationship forum where women are told to look at what their partner does, rather than what he says. That is how I feel about this. Look at what governments are actually doing, rather than what they say. If you look at that you realise just how serious this is.

If people hadn't been fed the unpleasant it's only the elderly and frail narrative, they would've taken it more seriously.

I think they did this to prevent even more extreme panic buying and/or looting. Imagine how crazy everyone would have gone had they been told the narrative we are starting to see now. There’d have been riots if we’d gone from normal life to China style lockdown.

I do t know anyone who has died or been hospitalised. I know one person with a confirmed case (fully recovered, they said it was pretty bad but not the worst thing they’ve had) and a few people who suspect they might have had it (all fairly mildly). I know a fair few people from the shield group and a couple of people regularly in and out of hospital. I guess it depends on where you live to a degree, I would expect people in London are more likely to know someone who has died.

I'm guessing we all know people hospitalised or dead.
Nope. I don't know anyone who has died of CV or been hospitalised with it.

This is obviously so much worse than we have been told
I don't think it can be worse than we've been told. The Govt have stressed what a nasty illness it is. We are given daily statistics of the number infected and the number of deaths reported in the previous 24 hours. If you can't work out how bad it is from the statistics then something is wrong with you.

Leaving aside the issue of those dying at home or care homes, death numbers aren’t accurate because there’s a lag between people dying and the death being reported. The lag may be days, weeks, even longer. A week at least is typical.

My DH has two colleagues in the ICU. Many people on here seem to have loved ones pass away. More than the raw numbers suggest.

I know a whole family who have had it - parents and three little boys. They have thankfully recovered.

@DarnedSocks
" If people hadn't been fed the unpleasant it's only the elderly and frail narrative, "

Are you talking about social media? Because every press conference and government ad states in so many words that anyone can get it. Come off social media and watch the news.

If you can't work out how bad it is from the statistics then something is wrong with you.

No need to get personal. Look at the stats comparing this with flu. If you can't work this out then maybe something is wrong with you

@Moomin8

*My cousin is a hospital doctor in Watford.

He says that every year the hospitals have to cancel operations and make extra provision for people with severe pneumonia.

He doesn't think it's as bad as is being made out

Or

Every year this happens ie people succumbing to respiratory infection and it's kept out of the media.

He also told me that a 3 year old child died recently because paramedics didn't want to admit him because of Covid-19 but he needed hospital treatment and died because he was denied admission.

There are various sides to every story.*

I don't understand the above post sorry can you explain?

I don't know anyone who has died or been hospitalised with CV either. I know a couple of people who have had bad symptoms, but both have recovered and dealt with it at home. Both 30s/40s. I'm in London.

I don't think the govt have downplayed it in any way. But I think the stats of people infected and number of deaths is higher than the official figures (because of lack of testing, and only reporting hospital deaths).

I personally don’t know anyone hospitalised or dead with it, and I live in the worst affected London borough. But I do know several who have had it or have it now in other parts of the country, even rural parts.

SuckingDieselFella I didn't believe the it's only the elderly, blah, blah, blah narrative. I did look at the news. Unfortunately too many other people did fall for that. I wouldn't have been reassured even it was killing only older people since I care about the elderly and believe their lives are as valuable as any other.

Exactly outread and this completely skews the death rate too. The only people currently being tested and confirmed as having it are those already ill enough to be in hospital in the first place (apart from a handful of others like Prince Charles and Boris Johnson, who is now in hospital but wasn’t when he was first tested.)

If all the people who have been quietly ill at home or who have had it but we’re largely asymptomatic we’re tested and confirmed the death rate would be tiny.

I dont know anyone confirmed with it or hospitalised. Im in London.
I dont think uts helpful when we are told x died eho has no apparent health conditions. Because they all as far as i know have a health issue known to make them extra vulnerable whether known to their family/officially diagnosed or not.

I agree that it’s hard to get your head around the situation.

On the one hand we hear that many people don’t have any symptoms and it’s rare to be serious.

But also, governments round the world have shut whole country’s down.

It’s confusing. I was saying this to DH last night. It’s just hard to comprehend I think.

I think this has the potential to very bad. It's clearly highly infectious, very dangerous to people who have other health conditions, and very difficult to treat once it gets to the lungs.

We're all reliant on the right strategies for prevention being adopted and followed and those working in health and social care are also reliant on being given the correct protection.

I don't personally know anyone who's had it yet, but that could change very quickly as it's still spreading.

There's a huge variation between different parts of the country. I live in outer London and 123 people have died in my hospital trust but only 164 in the whole of the South West.

How many people you personally know who have died or been hospitalised depends on how wide your social circle is. My grown up dcs know more people than I do. One son's boss has it. She is OK but her husband is in intensive care. Another son has a colleague who has lost both parents in their 70's.

My great aunt died of pneumonia back at the beginning of March after a week in a ward at the hospital mentioned above. She was admitted for something else. I don't know if she was tested for covid. Her son is pursuing the matter. She was 3 months from celebrating her 100th birthday.

I have a very wide social circle and don't know anyone who has had it. I'm in Rutland.

@DarnedSocks Your previous post indicated you thought it was the government saying it's only the elderly blah blah. This has never been the case. Correct me if I'm wrong but haven't you also said on the Boris thread that there was a government policy of herd immunity? This is a social media invention too.

Herd immunity is not a social media invention. That is bloody offensive.

I got it wrong. I believed what I read. It's unlike me as I usually take everything with a pinch of salt. I thought it was initial government policy. It certainly looked that way when they allowed large events like Cheltenham and international football to go ahead. And the lack of any border restrictions or quarantine.

Vallance at a press conference with Boris explained 0

"To avoid a second peak in the winter, Vallance said the U.K. would suppress the virus “but not get rid of it completely,” while focusing on protecting vulnerable groups, such as the elderly. In the meantime, other people would get sick. But since the virus causes milder illness in younger age groups, most would recover and subsequently be immune to the virus. This “herd immunity” would reduce transmission in the event of a winter resurgence. On Sky News, Vallance said that “probably about 60 percent” of people would need to be infected to achieve herd immunity."

www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/03/coronavirus-pandemic-herd-immunity-uk-boris-johnson/608065/

Herd immunity was really Cummings strategy, then Italy changed everyone's minds:

(Times paywall) Inside No 10 How Boris Johnson changed his priorities: save lives first, and then salvage the economy

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/coronavirus-ten-days-that-shook-britain-and-changed-the-nation-for-ever-spz6sc9vb

.....Dominic Cummings, the prime minister’s senior aide,
became convinced that Britain would be better able to resist a lethal second wave of the disease next winter
if Whitty’s prediction that 60% to 80% of the population became infected was right
and the UK developed “herd immunity”.

At a private engagement at the end of February, Cummings outlined the government’s strategy.

Those present say it was “herd immunity, protect the economy and if that means some pensioners die, too bad”.

At the Sage meeting on March 12, a moment now dubbed the “Domoscene conversion”,

Cummings changed his mind.
In this “penny-drop moment”, he realised he had helped set a course for catastrophe.

Until this point, the rise in British infections had been below the European average.
Now they were above it and on course to emulate Italy, where the picture was bleak.

A minister said: “Seeing what was happening in Italy was the galvanising force across government.”

By Friday, March 13, Cummings had become the most outspoken advocate of a tough crackdown.

“Dominic himself had a conversion,”
a senior Tory said.

“He’s gone from ‘herd immunity and let the old people die’,
to
‘let’s shut down the country and the economy.’”
.......
Johnson had also been queasy about the previous original approach.

“Boris hated the language of ‘herd immunity’ because it implied that it was OK for people to die,”
a senior source said.
.....
The two experts, together with Hancock and Cummings, all delivered to Johnson one message:
“Now is the moment to act.”

The prime minister agreed:
“We must work around the clock and take all necessary measures.”

One of those present said:
“The mood in the room was astonishing.
You could tell that something very significant had shifted.”