DH’s friend needs social interaction. MH. What to do?

[QueenofmyPrinces]

My husband has a very good friend who has been depressed for many years. He won’t see his GP because he thinks it’s a weakness, but he’s such a worry to us all.

He has in numerous occasions spoke about ending his life. His brother committed suicide 7 years ago and he has never really gotten over it.

He has a sister but they are estranged. His parents live in Europe and have no idea how fragile he is.

He is not married and does not have any children. Nor does he have a partner.

My DH, and other friends, do all they can to try and help, they phone him regularly, visit when they can, include him on outings and holidays etc. They are worried about him and tend to keep a close eye on him.

When the lockdown came into force we were all very worried about how the friend would cope because the thought of him being shut away from everyone left us uneasy.

Anyway, my DH called his friend yesterday who was very down, says he can’t cope with being on his own 24/7 with just his thoughts and my DH is worried his friend is going to try and harm himself.

At the end of the phone conversation the friend asked my DH if he could come over next weekend. He said that by then he will have been self isolating for long enough to know he’s clear of the virus (his words) because he doesn’t know how much longer he can go on for without seeing somebody.

My husband is anxious about this but what do we do? Can we really turn away his potentially suicidal friend?

The effects of this lockdown on people with MH issues must be so, so hard.

I have told DH that if he lets his friend come over then they are to stay in the garden, be completely away from each other (ends of our garden are about 12ft apart) and that me and the children won’t be joining them.

I feel very conflicted about it, as does DH but we feel like we have no other option.

If his friend was to harm himself then we would forever have it on our conscience.

Any suggestions?

The friend was talking about wanting to come next weekend so perhaps before then your DH should try to use one of the video options rather than just phoning? Google hangouts is really easy to use, for instance, it can be a group not just 2 people which might make it more relaxed.

Although in general we should be saying no to any 'unnecessary' interactions, in this instance if your DH can stay an appropriate distance apart then meeting in your garden or for a walk (if there's somewhere quiet they can both get to) doesn't sound unreasonable.

Is it possible for them to meet in an open space and walk together two metres apart? If he is vulnerable you are allowed to provide help.

That’s a good idea - there’s a lovely park near us that they could perhaps come across each other in.

My DH has been really good about self isolating, he feels strongly about it and literally only goes out to go shopping which is why he feels uneasy about this.

He’s at far more risk of picking something up from me but he still doesn’t like going against the guidelines and obviously I’d rather he didn’t either, but this is an exceptional circumstance I think.

As someone who suffered severe mental health problems for over a decade (repeated hospitalisations, self harm and suicide attempts) I think this man is seriously unreasonable for refusing to get any help and putting it all on his friends to be responsible for him. He is responsible for seeking help for his depression, and you can love him and support him as a friend, but you’re not MH workers and you’re not responsible for his safety. Refusing to get any help for his illness whilst insisting he needs you all to do whatever he wants is selfish and manipulative, and he needs to be told he has to see a doctor or seek other help to deal with his feelings as you’re not able to flout the rules just for him.

Risk management

The greatest risk here is his MH not the virus.

But work through solutions:

Try zoom and house party and see if it helps him feel part of something
Check your local council website and see if there’s anything available to help, local MH charities etc that can give advice

But I’ve got to say he will be vulnerable, the point to argue about whether he should ask for help is not now, anything which keeps him healthy enough to stay away from nhs and sw services just now is good.

It’s a horrible situation op and I totally understand how you feel, there will be lots of people like this too 😟

I agree with the folk who are saying this is about balancing risks. Professionals are still visiting folk, includin with mental health problems, when not visiting means they could come to significant harm. And if you are genuinely worried about him then it does, to me, come under the umbrella of caring for a vulnerable person, however crap he has been at helping himself. Just try to do it in as safe a way as possible as suggested.

How far away does he live? My widowed mum is in her 80s and I have been bringing her groceries, leaving them on the doorstep, then retreating down the drive for a short chat. She lives a 10 minute walk from me though in the same village.

She has also been for a short walk round the block, and I have gone “with” her on the pavement on the opposite side of the road . She is normally fine about short walks and has never had a fall, but said she was too worried about what happen if she fell to go now. ( We didn’t meet anyone else on our walk but if we had I had planned to cross to the same side as her but to scoot ahead or behind so the other person could have my side of the road)

I have weighed both these things up and think they do come into the “caring for vulnerable person” category.

So if you or one of your other friends lives within walking distance of this mans house, I would consider something similar.

On a thread the other day I said people do need to take some responsibility for their own MH (it didn’t go down well!) but this is exactly the sort of thing I mean. This man relies on all the people around him, not caring how much that affects these people, causing them so much worry. Yet he won’t even see the GP. It’s really quite selfish.
Maybe, just maybe, they are not usually selfish but it is the depression that makes them selfish and self-absorbed. It is part of the illness when it reaches a particular level of severity.

Too many think of depression as feeling low but, once you know someone who suffers severe depression or other NH issues and are under the care of a MH team, you realise what depression really is.

Lots of people feel like they should be able to cope with life better so, when they become depressed, don't visit a GP. They can end up in crisis. Whatever some say, there is still a stigma surrounding poor mental health.

Those with severe depression do become selfish (whilst ill) and they can't help it.

I would give an ultimatum. I am a depression sufferer, have been for years, finally out the other side almost now thankfully.

He absolutely does fall into the caring for vulnerable category. My approach would be, I will visit you once a week, safely, at a distance on the basis that you make an appointment with a GP and get help.

We have to love but not too much or we are mothering/gathering but a wee bit of pushing in the right direction with love I feel is the right balance.

KindKylie, you are absolutely right

Do you think any of his friends would mind him moving in with them for the duration of the lockdown? That would seem the best way of having someone keep an eye on him but avoiding lots of mixing of different households.

Depression distorts your thinking, it's not being 'selfish' not seeking help, it's being so depressed that your thinking is altered.

Those saying he should call his GP are correct, yes he should. But that's not going to alter the fact he's on his own 24/7 with no idea if that will last for weeks or months. A prescription issued over the 'phone isn't suddenly going to make that bearable.

I agree with those who say he’s being selfish in not seeing his GP.

However that doesn’t really help right now. It is something he should be doing in the next few months though

In the here and now I would agree to DP meeting him for exercise because that is a good thing for depression.
Is the friend still working from home?

I’d be giving him ideas to help him fill his days. Can some of his other friends do a challenge with him?? Eg they all need to learn to cook something? First to be able to do 100 push-ups in 5 minutes etc? Or first to baste the crow pose in yoga.

Things he can do on his own but which involve checking in with others and that will occupy him. Is there a show they can all watch together st the same time and text while they watch? I do this with friends watching The voice when it’s on
Does he have any elderly neighbours he can offer to help out.
Can your DP give him a pile of books to read or DVDs to borrow?
Suggest some podcasts for meditation or mindfulness. Find online quizzes he can do with others. Does he like video games where you play with others?

He clearly needs more than just a visit with your DP. Things to look forward to are really important.

Good luck

Where will this end though? Is one conversation in the garden going to be enough? What if he asks to come daily? Or come in the house? Or to stay over? What if he threatens to harm himself if your husband doesn’t provide more social interaction?

If your husband thinks that one visit will be enough, then fine. But in my experience, when people with MH issues find something that provides brief respite from their pain (even if it’s harmful to themselves - self harm, drugs etc.) they want it again and again.

I think you need to somehow try and access professional help or help from a wider organiser, like a community group, so he doesn’t become reliant on support from your DH.

@Francis

You sound nice.

There is definitely still stigma surrounding mental health if people genuinely think you’re ‘selfish’ for not seeking help for depression for fuck sake

I wouldn't let him come into your garden incase he then 'needs' to come into the house.
Meet over the park definitely, whilst keeping a distance. Drop some milk off and speak from the road.

He's vulnerable and common sense has to apply in this situation - a sensible, socially distanced meeting is appropriate - the risk to his mental health is greater than the physical health risks. A walk around the park at a distance sounds a good idea.

Yes he should be taking responsibility for his mental health but 'shoulds' can go out of the window with severe depression which distorts thinking.

I’m shocked at some of the responses on this thread and agree with @Francesthemute. What the hell is wrong with some people?!

Francesthemute Yes, and probably the same posters who praise the NHS. Who do they think cares for patients on mental health wards? Good job the doctors and nurses don't refuse to treat people for being 'selfish'.

He doesn't want to see the GP because he's embarrassed and sees it as a weakness but is perfectly happy to discuss it with friends and have friends partners etc know?

How much do this mans friends do for him? Do you all give him a lot of input? Sometimes people don't know how to live without their identity, this identity can be anything, in case of DHs friend, it is depressed. Also he recognises that he gets a lot from the friend group by being depressed.

Perhaps it is time for DH to contact the MH team and let the professionals deal with it..

There is definitely still stigma surrounding mental health if people genuinely think you’re ‘selfish’ for not seeking help for depression

This.

And if the man has been in isolation for 14 days the chances of him having the virus are close to zero.

You can’t be responsible but a chat at a distance should be fine.

My brother is quite similar but he had an opportunity to move in with my mother and didn’t so now he is alone and hates it. Usually he comes to ours for dinner once a week and my brothers and mothers another day so this is hard.

He is still sitting in mums garden but I don’t think she is being careful enough and he hasn’t taken the precautions he probably should have (hand washing /distance etc)

I feel awful not having him over or meeting him but what are we to do, expose ourselves or make him feel better. It’s really hard, we are already doing 2 calls a day

Agree with OoohPeee. One visit in the garden won’t be enough. It’ll turn into joining you for a bbq, oh and then he’ll need the loo....

If they absolutely must, then at the park or on this mans front drive. More control over the situation then. No no no to coming to your property.

I’d have him over. No question about it