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MIL refusing to distance herself, any ideas seriously welcome.

116 replies

BatShite · 03/04/2020 16:22

I know this will seem trivial in comparison to others issues at the moment, but this is causing a huge rift in my family, and is actively starting to make me hate my mother in law. Shes always been quite selfish, I won't go into all of that but its not been too much of a surprise the way shes going on because of this, just didn't expect it to be this bad. I have made a couple of posts in other threads about this, but am now at wits end and have no idea what I can do to stop this.

MIL is over 70. She also has a fair few serious medical problems which put her at very very high risk of complications if she catches this virus. However, ever since lockdown, she has been pushing it and pushing it and trying to convince others to just ignore the rules. I am at my wits end now and despite not really being an angry person, I am dangerously close to snapping, which I do not want to do for obvious reasons!

So we just had to, again, make MIL get back into the taxi she got, and go home. This is now the third time in a week she has tried to..sneak up here. First time she just said she was coming, ignored us saying no and turned up, stroled into the house and started crying when we told her to leave. Second time, luckily, the taxi she booked..the driver is family and rang us in advance, so she was basically turned away before getting in, resulting in wailing fits apparently, and again today, kidds were getting air in the garden and DD came flying in teeling us grandma is here and has brought loads of sweets! Yet again, a massive scene was made, with her crying and saying we are just being horrible and why don't we want to see her, etc etc.

She seems to have convinced herself that everyone is just 'using' this as a reason to avoid her. This includes us, neigbbours, and even an accusation that the GP surgery is trying to keep her away for reasons unknown Hmm Shes always seemed a touch narcisistic but this is..beyond a joke now. She is still visiting the shop multiple times a day, for different newspapers, biscuits, etc. When we offered to get her shopping and that weeks back to help her distance, she took that as us trying to 'stop her going out when she likes going out'. We have had a fair few complaints from neighbours, of her knocking on their doors and making scenes when they say no she cannot come in for a cuppa, and she has even started visiting town..for reasons unknown as before this virus, she never ever went t town and when we asked her once if she wanted to come to the cinema with us, she almost had a breakdown saying she couldnt be around that many people (anxiety issues have gone on for years)

I really do not know what to do, neither does DH, and we seem to have tried this from every angle possible but she is determined to put herself and others at risk. In the interest of keeping this thread shorter, I will try and go through approaches we have tried but not go into massive detail, as I swear I could write a novel at this stage..

  • You are high risk in multiple ways, its much better for you to stay in for your own good. Variations of this have included also going into detail about how she would use up a lot of medical staff/supplies etc if she did get it bad. We had to resort to that when she decided that she 'would rather die than not see people for a few weeks'. When she got into that mindset, she became more stubborn, however she has not yet tried to make out she would not call for help if she became ill (though we are expecting that soon..as another excuse). Pointed out that because of people refusing to disnace, hospitals will be overwhelmed and other peple will die, not just those who are ill with the virus, and possibly unnecessarily too as if everyone did what they were meat to, there wouldn't be so much of an issue. Apparently its a myth that the NHS is on its knees Hmm and there are more than enough staff, and everytime she goes to hospital all she sees are nueses and such sitting around drinking tea and talking. This one has maybe enraged me more than any others..
  • DD has asthma, as does DH. We have tried from the angle that she might make them ill, given shes out and about all the time. She took this massively personally, and devcided that we were saying she was dirty and diseased and of course she wouldn't come up if she was having symptoms. Pointing out that many do not get symptoms til later/at all went in one ear and out of the other, apparently she doesn't believe that as if its as dangerous as 'we are meant to believe' then everyone who had it would be deathly ill. No amount of attempting to explain this is clearly not the case..has got through. She has also decided that only those who have 'serious' asthma are at risk anyway, meaning those who are regularly hospitalised rather than those who 'just' have a few inhalers they have to take sometimes.
  • Its not forever, its short term (hopefuly) and massively needed for multiple reasons. But being alone for long periods of time makes her down she says. She will end up killing herself. This one enraged me, possibly more than it should. I know she doesn't like being alone, not many people do, but threatening suicide as we are trying to keep our family (and her..) safe and trying not to increase pressure on the NHS is just vile. This is not the first time she has used suicide in this way, its depressingly common when she has been told no for something. I highly doubt she would ever do it. But even if she did, we cannot just allow her to do what she what she likes as she threatens this. I mean, yeah we would probablly feel guilty if she did go down this route, but..what can you do really. My main problem with this one also has been, its clearly malicious and not something shes saying out of desperation, and she said it infront of our 7 year old..whch then got herself all upset and we had a very difficult conversation about suicide, with a child. This part has actually made me consider cutting off ALL contact, forever. Its just horrible.
  • Once a vaccine is made, or some plan is formed to fight this..everything will go back to normal. But no, Everyone is just trying to avoid her randomly. No reason why, just the whole world decided at the same point that they wanted nothing to dfo with her. Newspapers are clearly playing alng too and there is no crisis, just everyone has became selfish and no longer wants the burden of older/ill people Hmm This is not any genuine paranoia, or certainly does not sem that way, its just more being self centred. She actually looked me in the eye while DH was putting her bags back in the taxi and told me that she has been trying to get a GP appointment for 2 weeks now and even they are ignoring her, so even they don't want to see her. She wants an appointment just to 'talk' apparently. I get that that can help some, but in the middle of this crisis, health workers cannot be allowing appointments for no medical reason! Shes been offered one for in 5 weeks apparently, bt this is no good as she wants to talk now.

No amount of talking on the phone is helping. We have been in contact with her a few times a day to try and stop her feeling lonely. But this is not good enough. We are just being horrible. Nehgbours are just being horrible. Doctors are also. Shopkeeper is starting to be awkward and only allowing 2 people in shop at same time, probably to try and discourage people from going to the shop so they can just close and get time off as they are lazy and want paid for nothing. Its just..insane.

Only practical thing we have managed to get done so far, has been to talk a couple of local taxi companies round to not letting her book taxis from her home to ours. Which again, seems harsh and wrong but we cannot have her keep turning up! Also that seems to have made her more determined, as suddenly taxi drivers were added to her list of people who are just trying to ignore her.when she was cntinually told there was nothing available. Obviously this does nothing really though as there are so many companies about and no way would all of them agree to just put her off when she tries either..we were lucky that those 2 did, and its only as we are so friendly with the owner of one and have used them for years, and DHs uncle is part owner of the other. One f the other companies here als has stopped taking house to house bookings fullstop (apparently are only doing runs to hospitals and such), so they wouldn't bring her to start with..starting to wish all the companies took that approach really.

Does anyone have any suggestions that they can think of that might help?! I think we have probably tried all by this stage and nothings changing, and maybe I don't expect advice but just want to get this rant out or something but..I have never ever felt this stressed in my life and it really is starting to make me dislike her intensely. I have always found her self centred and manipulative mind, but it was kind of just an element of her personality that I could try to ignore, there were good parts of her too. But recently, the good seems to be disappearing and just being replaced with pure selfishness. DH doesn't know what to do either, he was actually crying last night while we were trying to figure a way to sort this, as he feels conflicted..as on the one hand shes his mother, on the other shes clearly being a massive massive cunt. He said he is considering cutting contact totally when this is over, due to her behaviour. Not sure if this would happen, though I am tempted too, as once the crisis is gone, the good will start showing again too I suspect, but for now, we want nothing at all to do with her. Which feels wrong. Its always been a bit of a tightrope walk keeping her happy, or happy enough not to cause issues. Now, it seems the only way she will stop behaving in this way is if we just let her walk all over us and put the whole family at risk, because she won't spend a few weeks in her house.

Any suggestions welcome, literally anything at all. Also prepared to be told we are in the wrong with how we are attempting to deal, so don't hold back (not that MN ever does Grin )

OP posts:
Gutterton · 06/04/2020 11:33

She might well have a personality disorder. Her tantrums and threatening suicide have been going on for years. This situation has obviously intensified her behaviours. She is already well known and supported by the health system. But seems that she has not been given any boundaries by family until now.

This might explain her behaviour but it doesn’t excuse it.

She wilfully upset a 7 year old little girl by ranting about suicide.

This is v abusive and harmful to that little child.

The OP has one responsibility here and that is to shield her child from further emotional injury meted out by such an unstable, manipulative and destructive force.

loutypips · 06/04/2020 12:32

@pocketem are you an expert on dementia then? Or a doctor?
Many of the people that have suggested it, is because we have experienced the same sort of behaviour from loved ones who do have dementia. Dementia isn't just getting a bit forgetful. In some cases it's a complete change of behaviour (or worsening of already bad traits).
In my own experience, my GM had been acting "oddly" for a few years before being diagnosed. She started getting increasingly self-centred and jealous of other people. She would tell her friends that we were treating her terribly, not feeding her, not buying her presents for her birthday things like that.
She didn't give a shit about anyone else. I didn't know that someone could change so completely. She was always a little jealous of her sisters, but this became a massive issue. We loved them more than her etc.
What the OP describes sounds very similar, hopefully she will be able to get support now, before it's too late.

Verily1 · 06/04/2020 16:15

She obviously has a significant psychological disorder.

Her gp/ psychological services should be doing something about it.

definitelygc · 06/04/2020 16:27

Dementia isn't just getting a bit forgetful. In some cases it's a complete change of behaviour

I've seen this happen in my IL's care home. Lovely grandmas and granddads turning into manipulative, aggressive and even violent people - all caused by dementia. It's incredibly sad.

If she's been like this for as long as you've known her then I would think it's probably more of a mental health issue but dementia can definitely exacerbate existing MH problems.

EllaEllaE · 06/04/2020 16:49

It might sounds harsh, but what I had to do with one older relative was start have explicit conversations with them about their plans for when they die.

After talking round in circles about how they were putting themselves at risk, I got to a point where I had to accept they were willing to die to prove their point. So I rung them up and said basically, "Ok, you know the risks of going outside, and you've decided thats a risk you want to take. We both know this means there is a high chance you might die within the next month. Let's take a moment to make sure you have everything in order for your own death. We both know I won't be able to come visit you in hospital, and I may have to arrange your funeral at a distance. So let's make plans. Do you have a will? Where is it kept? etc etc".

They thought I was joking, but I kept calm and insisted that I was totally serious. If they were putting their life at risk, that was their choice. But that meant we needed to be honest and open about the likely consequences.

I would suggest that your DP try something similar. Expect hysterics, but remain totally calm and insistent that, if MIL is prepared to risk her own life, she ought to get all her affairs in order in case she dies next month. Have the same conversation over and over until she gets the message.

pocketem · 06/04/2020 18:42

@loutypips pocketem are you an expert on dementia then? Or a doctor?
Yes to both

YouAreTheEggManIAmTheWalrus · 06/04/2020 19:25

There’s some really insensitive posts here, this is clearly an unwell person displaying behaviours that are absolutely not “normal”. OP your MIL needs help, I’m genuinely shocked that’s not been recognised.

aWeaponCalledtheWord · 08/04/2020 10:58

can i also just point out that unless a person is under secondary mental health services, there is no ‘crisis team’ to call.

they’re hard enough to get hold of if you are under services. if you’re not, they simply don’t exist as an option.

lyralalala · 08/04/2020 11:15

We have a relative that has been told if the turn up here again during lockdown we will be cutting contact for good. It was finally that, being told that they were endangering my family and we wouldn’t forgive it, that made them stay away

Now there is just lots of PA Facebook posts about being abandoned and how selfish people are

Lochroy · 08/04/2020 11:52

Do you know any policmen? Could someone give her an 'unofficial' first warning that she needs to start obeying the rules before she spreads more germs and killls someone?

Porcupineinwaiting · 08/04/2020 12:23

God no, dont let her move in with you! It'll be a constant fight with her going out and bringing infection back to your family.

It does sound like she is not very mentally healthy and hadnt been for a long time but there is absolutely nothing can be done about that right now.

CommunistLegoBloc · 08/04/2020 13:19

@loutypips pocketem are you an expert on dementia then? Or a doctor?
Yes to both

Grin that was a satisfying moment.

FWIW, this sounds like a personality disorder. EUPD or NPD - manipulative behaviours, suicidal threats and so on. It's very common for people with personality disorders to function well with a 'stabilising influence' such as a partner, job, family member etc. When that is lost, things fall apart. She's lost her stabilising influence of you lot so this is her illness taking over.

loutypips · 08/04/2020 13:37

@CommunistLegoBloc yeah and I'm an astronaut! Anyone can say that they are a doctor on the internet. Doesn't mean it's true.
All the stuff that you mention, suicidal threats, manipulation etc can be traits of dementia too. The op asked for advice, those that have said dementia might prompt the op to seek further advice. If it's not dementia, great. If it is, hopefully they will be able to get the right support. If I had of known some of the signs earlier, then we may have been able to have slowed the progress of my nans dementia.

pocketem · 08/04/2020 13:45

@loutypips
Why ask the question if you weren't going to believe the answer.
For what it's worth, suicidal threats and manipulative behaviour are not recognised traits of dementia at all. If anything, one of the earliest deficits in dementia is of complex executive functioning, so the task of manipulating someone's emotions, being able to predict their responses and tailoring your behaviour to press their buttons would be difficult early on. People with dementia can be very demanding hut generally on a more straightforward way - they want something and they ask for it directly, perhaps over and over again, but not by dropping hints or making veiled threats

justilou1 · 08/04/2020 14:20

I suspect that you are right, and she is a simply selfish and is looking for immediate gratification. (Also that you have made a rod for your own backs by pandering to her tantrums in the past.) I think you need to tell her that if she turns up at your house again, she will be escorted home by the police. She will probably be fined. If she doesn’t understand the consequences of her behaviour, then she needs to have her mental health and cognition assessed as a matter of urgency. Unfortunately this will mean that she will need to hospital and be more at risk of catching Covid-19. Hopefully this will scare the pants off her and stop this in it’s tracks. You may need to repeat this threat a few times.

sansgender · 08/04/2020 14:39

I think my MIL would be like this if it wasn't for the fact she lived with several family members already. Can't stand to be alone, but it's not out of the realm of possibility that she'll end up dying alone in a hospital corridor if she keeps exposing herself. A few months of alone is surely better than that.

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