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MIL refusing to distance herself, any ideas seriously welcome.

116 replies

BatShite · 03/04/2020 16:22

I know this will seem trivial in comparison to others issues at the moment, but this is causing a huge rift in my family, and is actively starting to make me hate my mother in law. Shes always been quite selfish, I won't go into all of that but its not been too much of a surprise the way shes going on because of this, just didn't expect it to be this bad. I have made a couple of posts in other threads about this, but am now at wits end and have no idea what I can do to stop this.

MIL is over 70. She also has a fair few serious medical problems which put her at very very high risk of complications if she catches this virus. However, ever since lockdown, she has been pushing it and pushing it and trying to convince others to just ignore the rules. I am at my wits end now and despite not really being an angry person, I am dangerously close to snapping, which I do not want to do for obvious reasons!

So we just had to, again, make MIL get back into the taxi she got, and go home. This is now the third time in a week she has tried to..sneak up here. First time she just said she was coming, ignored us saying no and turned up, stroled into the house and started crying when we told her to leave. Second time, luckily, the taxi she booked..the driver is family and rang us in advance, so she was basically turned away before getting in, resulting in wailing fits apparently, and again today, kidds were getting air in the garden and DD came flying in teeling us grandma is here and has brought loads of sweets! Yet again, a massive scene was made, with her crying and saying we are just being horrible and why don't we want to see her, etc etc.

She seems to have convinced herself that everyone is just 'using' this as a reason to avoid her. This includes us, neigbbours, and even an accusation that the GP surgery is trying to keep her away for reasons unknown Hmm Shes always seemed a touch narcisistic but this is..beyond a joke now. She is still visiting the shop multiple times a day, for different newspapers, biscuits, etc. When we offered to get her shopping and that weeks back to help her distance, she took that as us trying to 'stop her going out when she likes going out'. We have had a fair few complaints from neighbours, of her knocking on their doors and making scenes when they say no she cannot come in for a cuppa, and she has even started visiting town..for reasons unknown as before this virus, she never ever went t town and when we asked her once if she wanted to come to the cinema with us, she almost had a breakdown saying she couldnt be around that many people (anxiety issues have gone on for years)

I really do not know what to do, neither does DH, and we seem to have tried this from every angle possible but she is determined to put herself and others at risk. In the interest of keeping this thread shorter, I will try and go through approaches we have tried but not go into massive detail, as I swear I could write a novel at this stage..

  • You are high risk in multiple ways, its much better for you to stay in for your own good. Variations of this have included also going into detail about how she would use up a lot of medical staff/supplies etc if she did get it bad. We had to resort to that when she decided that she 'would rather die than not see people for a few weeks'. When she got into that mindset, she became more stubborn, however she has not yet tried to make out she would not call for help if she became ill (though we are expecting that soon..as another excuse). Pointed out that because of people refusing to disnace, hospitals will be overwhelmed and other peple will die, not just those who are ill with the virus, and possibly unnecessarily too as if everyone did what they were meat to, there wouldn't be so much of an issue. Apparently its a myth that the NHS is on its knees Hmm and there are more than enough staff, and everytime she goes to hospital all she sees are nueses and such sitting around drinking tea and talking. This one has maybe enraged me more than any others..
  • DD has asthma, as does DH. We have tried from the angle that she might make them ill, given shes out and about all the time. She took this massively personally, and devcided that we were saying she was dirty and diseased and of course she wouldn't come up if she was having symptoms. Pointing out that many do not get symptoms til later/at all went in one ear and out of the other, apparently she doesn't believe that as if its as dangerous as 'we are meant to believe' then everyone who had it would be deathly ill. No amount of attempting to explain this is clearly not the case..has got through. She has also decided that only those who have 'serious' asthma are at risk anyway, meaning those who are regularly hospitalised rather than those who 'just' have a few inhalers they have to take sometimes.
  • Its not forever, its short term (hopefuly) and massively needed for multiple reasons. But being alone for long periods of time makes her down she says. She will end up killing herself. This one enraged me, possibly more than it should. I know she doesn't like being alone, not many people do, but threatening suicide as we are trying to keep our family (and her..) safe and trying not to increase pressure on the NHS is just vile. This is not the first time she has used suicide in this way, its depressingly common when she has been told no for something. I highly doubt she would ever do it. But even if she did, we cannot just allow her to do what she what she likes as she threatens this. I mean, yeah we would probablly feel guilty if she did go down this route, but..what can you do really. My main problem with this one also has been, its clearly malicious and not something shes saying out of desperation, and she said it infront of our 7 year old..whch then got herself all upset and we had a very difficult conversation about suicide, with a child. This part has actually made me consider cutting off ALL contact, forever. Its just horrible.
  • Once a vaccine is made, or some plan is formed to fight this..everything will go back to normal. But no, Everyone is just trying to avoid her randomly. No reason why, just the whole world decided at the same point that they wanted nothing to dfo with her. Newspapers are clearly playing alng too and there is no crisis, just everyone has became selfish and no longer wants the burden of older/ill people Hmm This is not any genuine paranoia, or certainly does not sem that way, its just more being self centred. She actually looked me in the eye while DH was putting her bags back in the taxi and told me that she has been trying to get a GP appointment for 2 weeks now and even they are ignoring her, so even they don't want to see her. She wants an appointment just to 'talk' apparently. I get that that can help some, but in the middle of this crisis, health workers cannot be allowing appointments for no medical reason! Shes been offered one for in 5 weeks apparently, bt this is no good as she wants to talk now.

No amount of talking on the phone is helping. We have been in contact with her a few times a day to try and stop her feeling lonely. But this is not good enough. We are just being horrible. Nehgbours are just being horrible. Doctors are also. Shopkeeper is starting to be awkward and only allowing 2 people in shop at same time, probably to try and discourage people from going to the shop so they can just close and get time off as they are lazy and want paid for nothing. Its just..insane.

Only practical thing we have managed to get done so far, has been to talk a couple of local taxi companies round to not letting her book taxis from her home to ours. Which again, seems harsh and wrong but we cannot have her keep turning up! Also that seems to have made her more determined, as suddenly taxi drivers were added to her list of people who are just trying to ignore her.when she was cntinually told there was nothing available. Obviously this does nothing really though as there are so many companies about and no way would all of them agree to just put her off when she tries either..we were lucky that those 2 did, and its only as we are so friendly with the owner of one and have used them for years, and DHs uncle is part owner of the other. One f the other companies here als has stopped taking house to house bookings fullstop (apparently are only doing runs to hospitals and such), so they wouldn't bring her to start with..starting to wish all the companies took that approach really.

Does anyone have any suggestions that they can think of that might help?! I think we have probably tried all by this stage and nothings changing, and maybe I don't expect advice but just want to get this rant out or something but..I have never ever felt this stressed in my life and it really is starting to make me dislike her intensely. I have always found her self centred and manipulative mind, but it was kind of just an element of her personality that I could try to ignore, there were good parts of her too. But recently, the good seems to be disappearing and just being replaced with pure selfishness. DH doesn't know what to do either, he was actually crying last night while we were trying to figure a way to sort this, as he feels conflicted..as on the one hand shes his mother, on the other shes clearly being a massive massive cunt. He said he is considering cutting contact totally when this is over, due to her behaviour. Not sure if this would happen, though I am tempted too, as once the crisis is gone, the good will start showing again too I suspect, but for now, we want nothing at all to do with her. Which feels wrong. Its always been a bit of a tightrope walk keeping her happy, or happy enough not to cause issues. Now, it seems the only way she will stop behaving in this way is if we just let her walk all over us and put the whole family at risk, because she won't spend a few weeks in her house.

Any suggestions welcome, literally anything at all. Also prepared to be told we are in the wrong with how we are attempting to deal, so don't hold back (not that MN ever does Grin )

OP posts:
Fluffycloudland77 · 05/04/2020 15:56

I think it’s tipped her over the edge by the sounds of it. If she starts disturbing the peace you can ring the police.

AnnaMagnani · 05/04/2020 16:07

If she already sees a mental health specialist, it makes dementia a lot less likely. As does her ability to think of lots of new things to do - start going in to town, find new taxi firms, generate the bag of sweets for the grandchild idea. Generally people with dementia can't come up with so many new ideas.

It just sounds like she has a long term problem with poor coping, her preferred strategy is manipulation - even her GP prob gives her regular appointments just to keep things quiet. And now COVID has come along and she can't manipulate anyone into doing anything, her mental health team are all in lock down and she's losing it.

I'd stick to your boundaries and call the police if necessary.

GreenTulips · 05/04/2020 16:11

I would also say you will be reporting her behaviour.

EmmaOvary · 05/04/2020 16:15

She sounds like she may have something like narcissistic personality disorder. I say this as someone with a mother who has it.

Don't engage. She's behaving this way because she needs emotional oxygen. Don't give it to her.

BatShite · 05/04/2020 16:17

If she already sees a mental health specialist, it makes dementia a lot less likely.

Dh said that. The interesting thing about her seeing a professional already is..she was seeing her due to anxiety problems. Said anxiety was apparently stopping her from being able to leave house alone, be in places likely to be crowded, etc. Yet, now lockdown happens and suddenly, she can get the bus (has claimed not to be able to use buses for years now) to local town. She has also said she cannot go to town for months now. Shes not had a counselling appointment now for a couple of weeks (was seeing her monthly) but I do wonder what specialist will say about this new behavior..and if MIL will even tell them that all of a sudden anxiety seems to have lessened, during a time where you would think it would get worse? Not my area of expertise of course, but its confusing a bit and given other behaviour, am starting to wonder if that was just attention seeking in a way..I mean, the anxiety was used as an excuse of why she needed to, for example,m come to metro with us, as she absolutely could not manage to go on her own. Stuff like that. Shes definitely had 'more contact' due to the anxiety thing, and we have made sure when we go to the cinema for example,l we ask her if she wants to go as she wouldn't be able to go if not with us, etc.

My mother definitely has a point like, when thinking this through properly, we have created this ourselves, by trying to keep the peace and trying to give his mother..who seemed to have mental health issues, some resemblance of a 'normal life'. Now it seems, its been manipulation all along. I hope I am wrong, but I don't think I am.

OP posts:
cstaff · 05/04/2020 16:21

I think this is your perfect opportunity to put the situation right in the long-term. Maybe with this few weeks / months of isolation she will get used to her own company and you will definitely get used to not having her there 24 / 7.

In the short-term hopefully you don't have to get her arrested...

Alsohuman · 05/04/2020 16:24

She’s not well, is she? This is completely abnormal behaviour. You can’t control her, OP, she’s an adult. All you can do is continue to refuse to collude with or enable her.

rvby · 05/04/2020 16:32

She may not have anxiety issues. She may be a person who needs lots of attention/tending from others in order to stay calm and sane enough to get through the day.

Before lockdown, anxiety will have got her the attention and tending that she needed. It sounds like you all bent over backwards to accommodate her. That's what she wanted.

Now with lockdown, she had to change her tactics. Now she is accusing, pushing people around etc. She still needs the attention she needed before, she has to get it somehow, no matter how bonkers it gets.

None of this is likely to be conscious. Very rarely would this kind of situation be consciously created by the person.

Just realize that anxiety isnt necessarily this physical brain chemistry thing that many people make it out to be. It often has a function. If circumstances change, the anxiety can disappear and another set of "symptoms" can appear as a way for the person to meet an underlying need.

Gutterton · 05/04/2020 16:36

Yes she is a manipulative Narc.

Your DM is right.

Perfect opportunity now to put in really hard and high boundaries. “Grey rock” technique (don’t give her any info about your life, reply to everything in a dull vanilla way). It’s like taming a toddler.

These types get worse with age - it’s the fake illnesses, the drama lama stuff around caring for them - all of a sudden they can’t go shopping so you have to drop in shopping, attend appointments, come and change a light bulb etc Multiple request a day. She will be living with you before you know it. Be ready for the fake crises and manufacturer exaggerated illnesses.

See everything as a trap and manipulation. Don’t get drawn in. Just bounce everything back ask her what SHE is going to do about it - or sign post her to GP etc. Don’t take anything on.

As others have said chance now to set new rules. She has dominated and invaded your lives. Don’t respond to any escalation from her. Rinse and repeat instructions twice and have a firm calm consequence if she doesn’t comply. Expect her to make a scene outside your house - maybe tip a neighbour off to call the police or intervene (safely).

Don’t be scared of her volatility, anger, drama, histrionics and rage. Let her vent - it will blow over - like a toddler. Don’t fuel the fire. Don’t engage.

VivaLeBeaver · 05/04/2020 17:35

Tell her you’ve got it, 2 weeks later tell her dh has it, then one of the kids, then another kid. That might keep her away for 2 months?

VivaLeBeaver · 05/04/2020 17:39

Oh and I didn’t think dementia when I read the OP. I thought manipulative narc, she sounds like my mother!

Though I’ve been NC with her for years so thankfully I don’t have to put up with such crap now. Hope you manage this ok, definitely lock the door.

cstaff · 05/04/2020 17:53

Also dementia never even occurred to me on reading your OP. She sounds like she is very manipulative and knows how to play you all.

thetoddleratemyhomework · 05/04/2020 20:43

We turned my PIL away on the doorstep on Mothering Sunday. Was awful.

Nothing we said would convince them... then the listener to More or less on radio 4. Now fully paid subscribers for social distancing and all fine. I am just pleased that they will take advice from someone - I cba to be offended it wasn't me!

Myyearmytime · 05/04/2020 22:40

My vote is going with dementia.
Phone her dr and social services.
Or you have her you live with while s going lock down on but dont recommend it

PanamaPattie · 05/04/2020 23:25

She hasn't got dementia. She's a self entitled twat.

underthepatio · 06/04/2020 02:55

I'm another one suggesting dementia. Early signs are often put down to forgetfulness but can become glaringly obvious when people are taken out of their comfort zone.

Things are so different to normal at the moment that if she is in the early stages of dementia she will be finding it very difficult to cope. When my father was diagnosed with dementia, we realised belatedly that unusual behaviour we had been noticing for years had in fact been early signs that she had dementia.

pocketem · 06/04/2020 06:39

FFS it's not dementia

Every time someone posts something about an elderly person behaving badly, getting taken in by a scam or anything else, people always claim it could be dementia. This is not how dementia presents except in the rarer cases

GreenTulips · 06/04/2020 08:41

Well you could suggest to MIL that you are worried she has dementia and that you are considering ringing the doctors and adult social services to get her the help she needs

Frouby · 06/04/2020 08:52

We've had similar denial and fuckwittery from fil and his girlfriend. He's 74 and had 2 strokes, shes 77/78 and fit as a flea but still 77/78.

They haven't listened at all. Gone gallavanting round town and shopping etc despite both families saying they would shop and drop etc. Fil phoned us the Saturday morning when they closed the pubs and bookies raging that nothing was open in town.

Fil is currently in hospital recovering (hopefully) from Corona. He's kicking off this morning because he wants to come home because he's had enough. He's off oxygen and doing ok apparently but when he was first admitted they said at least 3 weeks. He's been in 6 days tomorrow. It will be a long 2 weeks for him.

Alsohuman · 06/04/2020 09:05

He won’t stay two weeks Frouby, he’ll discharge himself and I don’t blame him. Hospitals are appalling places for anyone but they’re much worse when you’re old. Nothing would induce me to stay there for three weeks.

Frouby · 06/04/2020 09:44

I don't blame him for not wanting to be there also. But if he discharges himself and has a relapse he needs to understand he may not get a bed the second time. And also that we are not providing any care other than dropping shopping off if they want. His girlfriend will think they are even more OK to go gallavanting around now he's had it because she thinks she's probably had it too. I am asthmatic and my husband has 2 stents in and high (but well managed) BP plus I have the dcs at home. So I won't be helping him. If dh wants to he can but he will have to self isolate with them.

notmyhusbandsproperty · 06/04/2020 10:06

Is she on medication? If so has she taken it? It’s hard for some to get to the pharmacy and if she is off meds it might explain why she has been so bad lately?

Alsohuman · 06/04/2020 10:17

I understand your frustration Frouby but I also understand his. There isn’t anywhere much to go gallivanting now, is there?

We’re obeying the rules but we’ve agreed that we’re not telling our adult kids if we get ill because neither of us want to end up in hospital. We’ve got two weeks worth of good and we’ll weather it if we have to.

Alsohuman · 06/04/2020 10:17

Food even!

NotEverythingIsBlackandwhite · 06/04/2020 11:12

She is clearly ill and mental ill-health immediately came to mind as did dementia. The fact that she thinks everyone is conspiring against her makes me think she is becoming very unwell rather than just being manipulative. Does she suffer psychotic episodes with her MH condition?

Is she on medication? If so, what is it and is she taking it? Paranoia (and delusions) can occur due to extreme lack of sleep and I am wondering whether the anxiety of her situation and your response to it is causing her to not be able to sleep.

When people are severely depressed they can be very selfish and self-absorbed. It isn't their default personality. It is a symptom of their illness.

I would contact the MH crisis team and tell them everything and see if they can help.

I would also (you won't like this suggestion) ask her to live with you while this situation is ongoing. This may well calm things down. She is clearly in a great deal of mental anguish. I wouldn't want my mum or mil to be isolated by herself in this state.