Is anyone else angry and embarrassed right now ?

[Sapphiresunrise]

For the developed and resourced country that we are, we are potentially going to be overtaking Italy and Spain by the looks of things.
Australia and other nations have death rates in double figures. They were smart to close borders and even close regions. Canada the same. Denmark, etc. The list goes on. South Korea have the situation under control.
We were warned about this. I feel like majority of those deaths could have been avoided.

WHO have said China's numbers are accurate. The reason you rubbish them is because they show clearly that other methods do work.

@ShanghaiDiva and you have just explained exactly why the situation in China is unsustainable. Unless they will now close the borders to foreigners until a vaccine is found. Is that the idea now?

'However some people seem to think that if we had a different government we would have been able to emerge from a global pandemic with 3 deaths and a great economy. As if the UK are special and should be able to avoid the fate that every other country has or will face...:

Yes it is staggering that people seem to think 'The Tories' are killing by bungling the whole thing. It will spread, nothing can stop that until a vaccine is produced. Controlling it to a degree is all that can be done and is being done. The NHS is coping!!!!

All the measures in place from the unprecedented financial support, the Nightingale hospitals sprung up in record time, the research our world class expert scientists are conducting regarding trials, the mega labs constructed to ramp up testing. None of that matters because we should have been locked in our houses from the beginning of February according to hysteria peddlars on here.

I think every country will effectively keep its borders closed other than for repatriation purposes for the considerable future untill globally this is under control, it may open in a staggered manner, Ie where countries are under control for an extended period they will open to those countries.

I don’t think China is unique in that.

@oldbeforem some do seem to want a different government. A government that locks us all down, suppresses information, makes people disappear who speak up, monitors us constantly, collects all our data and rules by fear.

allout you need to do some research into the WHO.

There are political reasons why they have said what they have

And many people have paid the price with their lives

@Bool
I have no idea. As you say, this is not sustainable long term and it will be interesting to see what happens.

'Whether you believe the numbers or not, my city now looks very different: dd’s School is open again with staggered starts, restrictions have been lifted, restaurants open etc, but social distancing measures are still in operation.'

Out of interest have they closed the wet markets, is there a community drive to ensure it happens? Apologies, I'm not of course blaming you personally just as you are on the inside and could give an accurate picture. We know of course the Chinese government lies, yet the who believe everything they say strangely.

@ShanghaiDiva do you not see that’s hard to believe? They did nothing to stop the virus leaving China and now the rest of the world are fucked they seem very bothered about keeping it out as if we are a threat to them?!

New cases are ‘only’ coming from overseas...? I’m sorry but China lie. They handled the whole thing appalling and are now desperately trying to make it look like they didn’t.

@bool They are insisting all visitors quarantine. Why is that unsustainable until there is a vaccine?

@shanghaidiva well maybe China WILL close its borders until a vaccine is found. I am not sure how else they will suppress this now. A bit like how some people here will want to stay inside until a vaccine is found (which by the way they can do - nobody will stop anyone doing that). I just don’t think either is a sustainable proposition. Nobody wants this virus. Nobody. But we need a way out. And with a vaccine so far away, one way out to prevent complete economic destruction is to let it spread at a rate that doesn’t crash our health system, shield the vulnerable and let those who have got it go back to work.

I am reading here that our health system hasn’t crashed yet.

My only (but big) criticism of the government is the testing thing. I wish I knew if I had had it - I think I have. Because then I can get back to work.

nypost.com/2020/04/01/china-acknowledges-underreporting-coronavirus-cases
www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00434-5

China’s reporting methods do mean cases are missed. The jump occurred when they decided to use chest x rays before quickly going back. Numbers can be accurate within a data set yet still not give a complete picture.

Even if you take them at face value given what we know they can’t get everyone

Also how did they decide to report deaths?

Because we know it started in a November and China locked down 2 months later and the mutations haven’t been significant so why the discrepancy

time.com/5813628/china-coronavirus-statistics-wuhan/

And that also says something key we still don’t know how this works enough to think that anyone is doing accurate testing and reporting.

That is why immunity and antibody tests needs to be the priority

@alloutoffucks closing borders is unsustainable (or maybe not. Maybe China will carry on with that until a vaccine is found. Who knows). South Korea is undesirable. It is not just about forcing quarantine in South Korea. It is all the monitoring and data capture that is scary about their position.

Why should people believe randoms on the internet over WHO? WHO are saying China's numbers are accurate.

'My only (but big) criticism of the government is the testing thing. I wish I knew if I had had it - I think I have. Because then I can get back to work.'

It has been slow but diagnostics in this country was not extensive, obviously there wasn't the need. They have now produced the equivalent of nightingale hospitals in 'mega labs', again it really is impressive but doesn't fit the anti Boris agenda by some on here.

My comments refer to the processes implemented within China to contain the virus and manage the process in China.

Shame they couldn't have contained it before it went global....

If you look at what is happening in China now it is clear that the threat is now from the virus coming back into China:

I thought they blamed the US & Italy 🤔

No one has said you can emerge with 3 deaths and a great economy.

@wehttam was convinced an earlier lockdown would have lessened the economic impact. Other posters have repeatedly said as an island we could have avoided the majority of our deaths.

@bool So a more sustainable strategy is just allowing most people to get it and see who is alive at the end?

@GivenchyD and @ShanghaiDiva yes I am interested in that too. Is there an understanding in China of where this virus came from and that the wet markets have opened again? Are people forming resistance to that move or are they too scared?

Why should people believe randoms on the internet over WHO? WHO are saying China's numbers are accurate.

Don't believe randoms. Do some research.

Alloutfucks because even if you take at face value at the time it was accurate there is an acknowledgement asymptotmatic cases were missed

You look at what they knew when they said it compared with now - so much was done based on a temperature being a sign or based in contact tracing. People would have been missed.

The numbers could have been correct and accurate at the time the WHO said that but still not necessarily true now

The Diamond Princess model where everyone was tested shows that a lot of people had no symptoms at all

WHO are saying China's numbers are accurate

So we should believe WHO that China's numbers are accurate but we should not believe WHO when they said travel restrictions & bans were not necessary?

@alloutoffucks yes that is one way out of this mess without complete economic meltdown. That is why this whole situation is an utter disaster.

@mochajoes Lessening the economic impact is very different from 3 deaths and a great economy and you bloody well know it.

@bool Okay thank you at least I know what you now want. Most people to get the virus and see who is left alive at the end. That would mean an estimated half a million dead and unknown numbers left with lung damage. But in your eyes a worthwhile sacrifice.

@oldbeforem
The Chinese believe that the threat is now coming from outside and they do see foreigners as the threat. This is clear from signs appearing in some businesses stating: foreigners not welcome.
New cases are being reported in provinces with higher numbers of foreigners eg Beijing, Shanghai etc but no increases in provinces such as Tibet, Xinjiang with lower numbers of foreigners. Clearly, I cannot confirm that these numbers are accurate.